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azinorum -> RE: The Shia led government is trying to cover up Saddam's barbaric execution (1/4/2007 11:43:03 AM)
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"What you mentioned has some truth but but not completely true. Saddam wasn't the president of Iraq for 30 years but 24".
We’ll I suppose if you believe Ahmed Hassan Al Bakr was truly ruling Iraq and Saddam was really just vice President then you can say he was leader for 24 years.
"Most of the issues you complained about happened during the worst time that was casused by the economic sanctions not saddam".
Surely you don’t think the sanctions were put upon us for nothing? He invaded Kuwait, it wasn’t a democratic decision. Did you think the invasion of Kuwait was a good idea?
"Saddam built the country since he became president, building schools, hiways, infrastructure, military, sent students abroad for higher education, won unicef awards for offering the best healthcare in the middle east and for combating illitracy in Iraq".
Yes but this was a long time ago. You are choosing to look at only the positive aspects of his leadership. If you compare Baghdad for example to what it was 60 years ago there is little difference. Now compare somewhere like Dubai to what it was only 10 years ago and you will understand how little Saddam did to build the infrastructure in his time as leader. He was preoccupied building Palaces and monuments while there were 40 children in each classroom with not enough books to go round.
The difference between now and then is that Saddam did discriminate but it appeared that the Iraqi people did not.
“If you compare that to what we have today, it's the difference beteween the grounds and the skies”.
You are right but as I said earlier this doesn’t mean Saddam was a great President but rather reflects how bad things are now. It’s a question of a lesser of two evils (forgive the expression).
“Saddam also went after corruption and secterians and was a secular leader, did not discriminate between a shia or a sunni, christian, kurds, ........”
Come on….everything in Iraq was by wastah. Even if kids wanted to pass exams they had to pay the right teacher to graduate them. Iraq has been corrupt for so many years because the wages the government paid were a disgrace and this forced employees to supplement their income by other means. Just think, a policeman’s wages were $8 per month just before the invasion so how could we expect them to put their lives on the line when their wages weren’t even enough to buy their monthly cigarette supply? The same applies to teachers, professors, engineers, nurses and so on.
“he made mistakes as many others do but we sepak today comparing what we had and what we have. Let me tell you this, if this current bankrupt government had done 50% of what saddam did in his early years (ignore sanctions) then I would give them the benefit of the doubt. This Iranian government of Iraq can't even do 1% with no sanctions”.
Yes, if you continue to compare then you will always come to this conclusion.
“If you ask anyone in Iraq today, what do you want for the new year they will say "someone like saddam" because this corrupt government of maliki gave no reason for Iraqis to think otherwise”.
I thought so too but have found out it recently that the answer to that question depends on who you ask. You’re probably a Baghdadi like me so everything seems 100% worse. People in the South will surprise you if you ask them what they want for the New Year. Just the other day I was chatting with someone who lives in Baghdad but comes from Samawa and he was telling me that he visited his hometown for the first time in 7 years last month. Since the occupation two new Power Stations have been built and the city has 22-24 hours of electricity a day. Also every single train and rolling stock is now overhauled in samawa which has created many new jobs. The city is also unafected by sectarian violence and has little or no crime. During Saddam's time they had 0-2 hours electricity a day and the town was falling apart. So I guess if you were to ask a Samawan the same question then their answer will differ greatly when compared with a Baghdadis. So no you are not correct in saying that every Iraqi would say they wanted Saddam back.
I want to be clear. I hate what has happened to Baghdad since the end of the invasion; you just have to read through some of my older posts to know that I was against the war and still am. But that’s not our point. Our discussions are based around the below comment which was made by you:
“he isn't an agent of any country, but he lived his life for Iraq and Iraqis”
As for the agent comment well now that Saddam's dead we will never really know. He took that secret with him to his grave so we can never be 100% certain and the "was he or wasn't he" debate will go on for years to come. But just to counter one of your earlier comments you can look at it from an entirely different perspective. The Americans wouldn't be too happy if Saddam owned up to being an agent either. Perhaps the real reason the Americans kept him in their custody right up to 3 days before the execution was because they were afraid Saddam was about to spill the beans? Perhaps they wanted Saddam dead and buried so that they could silence the only man that could confirm that the USA put him in power to begin with. Perhaps it went even deeper than that. Who knows.
In any case welcome to the forum and keep um coming. Regards Azinorum
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