my name is ali and i live in denmark first of all down with occuipers and the traitors now even if the hang president saddam hussien who i see as all the iraqies father it dosnet matter the people will still fight for the freedom the kurds and there shia traitors to hell with them i dont say i hate shia and kurd no because there is good people and bad people but to hell with mogtada al sadr and to hell with the occupiers and to hell with al hakim and to hell with talabani long live al maqama
It seems to me that you are one of those sent by the regiem out side to spread their filthy idiology, back warded people like you have no place in new Iraq, so I suggest that you change your name to David and continue with your normal life. The Cowred president of Iraq will be excuted like a dog in a very near future inshaallah.
Why is it that you think you have more of a right than aliben to live in Iraq? It seems to me that despite his opinions he has as much right to air his views as you do. Even the staunchest haters of the Baath party have to admit that these interim governments have made things much worse. We all know what Saddam and his cronies were and how much they held us back but after 3 years of hell I would choose them any day over what has preceded him. Sadder, Hakeem, Jaafari, Maliki…I can’t keep up anymore. Will you please tell me how on earth you think things are better now? The current crop of leaders is even worse than Saddam and his henchmen. These days’ engineers, contractors, teachers, doctors and other professionals are getting paid better wages but live in fear hitherto not experienced by Iraqis. Simple day to day journeys are fraught with fear and sending children to school is done on a hope and a prayer. Electricity, water sanitation, security, lack of fuel, rising prices, huge amounts of money have disappeared from government accounts and the daily death rate is frightening…just tell me why you think it’s better now? I’ll bet you can’t. There are even more people scrambling to leave Iraq these days and not without good reason. Most of our educated classes have now departed for safer countries (these are the people we needed most in order to rebuild our country), our women look like they are Iranian and hate is the language of choice. The Saddam trial was a complete laughable sham and has brought nothing but shame on the new government. Already human right groups are condeming how this show trial was conducted and concluded. I would have to say that you are the backward one. I would however still be interested in hearing how and why you think things have improved since the fall of Baghdad. Or are you going to revert to calling me a Bathist agent..etc, etc etc.? Waiting for you to enlighten us with you wisdom.
In reply to your comments No!!!!!! I have equal rights as any other Iraqi but I would like to state that the very fact that people are free to express their views nowadays is a change for good and in the past time were the filthy ideology of Ba’th was the ruling formula, nobody neither you or him or indeed me were capable of speaking out of the ba’th official line, so as I said you have to agree that this is a change for better. My harsh reply to him was because that his tone is full of disrespect and denial to the bitter facts of thirty five years of oppression by the dictator with the same language of (Intolerance) speaking of Shi’aa and Kurds like they are some aliens, foreigner to Iraq or Non Iraqi’s. With respect to rest of points you mentioned, I agree that the situation looks extremely bleak, massive migration to Syria and Jordan, Casualties mounting on daily basis, people plagued with illiteracy and mental disease, these are all facts and I can never ever deny them, but you have to see that some of these problems are inherited from 35 years of illegal rule in Iraq and a number of illegal wars which destroyed Iraq and its social fabric. And the rest of the problems created by (some) political elites to follow the line of Means justifies the Ends, and some of it orchestrated by foreign and indeed western countries to destabilise Iraq (( read my article in the section of The…. The root of all …..)) . Why is it that only Mr. Tariq Al Hashimi is capable of speaking to the criminals who are massacring Iraqi’s on daily basis? who in behiend him?? Is it because he is part of the minority which ruled Iraq with an Iron fist for centuries?. Let’s not fool ourselves and understand the facts. All of the names that you have mentioned in you comments are all Iraqi’s and belong to the majority which will lead the country to a better future hopefully if the minority allows this to happen. With respect to the trial of the dictator of Iraq I think that you agree that he should be very grateful that there was a trial for him, somebody who executed millions without a trial, did you see the moment that Saddam and his mob heard the judgement, I watched it for at least fifty times, the moment of complete shock, not a single drop of blood in their faces, that is the fate that he and his mob put millions of Iraqi’s through, the very same fate, and finally he is going through the same fate. I welcome any comments on this article or indeed any article I published, Regards Lucifer.
Its always the same for us Iraqis...we get rid of our presidents and then when we get someone who is worse we regret. It was like that with Abdul Kareem Qassim, they killed him and then when saddam came everyone cried for the days of Abdul Kareem Qassim(I know Saddam wasn't the president right after him). Now saddam is gone and people regret and prefer the life under his tyranny, rather than all of the deaths and car bombings that people are facing. Well if thats the case then why don't we improve our lives and try to keep our presidents? We are the ones that should create democracy and not wait for someone else to give it to us. Democracy is not something we can buy or get from someone..its something we can create. But the question is how should we creat democracy?? All I can say about that is we need to get up and work for it and not wait on those Iranian Puppets to do anything...because they will never do anything they are only there for their own good!
Of course you have as much right to air your views as anybody. I don’t dispute that. Of course you, I and all Iraqis have a right to be angry and disillusioned by the Baathist regime but let get this out of the way: there are no democracies in the Middle East. It’s a fallacy.
I am Shia by birth and during the Baath party’s rule my friends consisted of Sunnis, Christians, Kurds and Turkumans. We lived together, married each other, ate together, worked together, laughed together and cried together. There was no problem between us despite our differing ethnic and religious backgrounds. These days I can’t even contemplate crossing the river to visit friends because the likely outcome will be that I won’t make it back home again in one piece (literally!). I don’t disagree that part of the current predicament is bourn out of 35 years of Baathist rule but one dictatorship will be replaced by another and what we are experiencing today is the worst kind of dictatorship, the religious kind. I don’t know what you mean by freedom of speech? We are only free to express our views openly from behind closed doors, or via the internet, so nothing has changed from that perspective. I live in Karrada and if I was to go out onto the street and criticize Hakeem or Sisitani I would be dead within a week. This month alone more than 3,700 people have been murdered and the great majority died for no other reason than being born Shia or Sunni. These are the facts we should be talking about, not how many died during Saddam’s time because there is no comparison. The names mentioned will not lead us to a better future because they are incapable of doing so. It’s amateur hour with everyone lining their pockets, stealing and stripping the country of its much needed financial resources. These are religious figures with no place in politics. Just look at that thug Muqtada Al Sader, he couldn’t have besmirched his fathers good name more if he tried. If they had their way we would all be wearing Abayas and dishdashas.
I’ve said it before and will say it again; Iraq will always need a strong leader who will have to be ruthless to get things done. This leader cannot and must not be supported by religious parties. Politics is a dirty business and religion cannot have any part in it if it is to remain true to its ideals. Regards. Azinorum
< Message edited by azinorum -- 11/22/2006 5:02:30 PM >
In reply to your article I would like to say that the very fact that you are allowed to breathe from Iraq even though it is through the internet, I think that is an advantage. With respect to the rest of the article I have some conservations and observations that I do not see that it is possible to discuss on this website. I hope the very best for all Iraqi’s and Iraq, and to my sister Zaynab I pretty much would like to see her much appreciated point of view with respect to my reply to her article titled ((Why is this happening to us)). Dear Azinorum. The problem now in Iraq is not the political figures that you see in the newspapers or indeed all the names that you have mentioned, the true problem is from the true and I really mean the true rulers of Iraq and I hope that you understand what I mean. With my deepest respects and regards - Lucifer
Sorry Lucifer but your facts are inaccurate. Iraqis had access to internet before the war. Anyone with a PC could buy uruklink cards and view pages from home. Although some websites were blocked (mainly those with pornographic material) we were able to read news, access search engines, send and receive emails. So I don’t understand why you say, and I quote “the very fact that you are allowed to breath from Iraq even though through the internet, I think that is an advantage”. I don’t know if you actually live in or have lived in Iraq in recent years because your comments would suggest otherwise.
I’m afraid I didn’t understand your last sentence “the true problem is from the true and I really mean the true rulers of Iraq and I hope that you understand what I mean”. And why is it that you feel you can’t post your “other conservations and observations” on this website? Would appreciate it if you could clarify.
Dear Azinorum, your English is too good for an Iraqi so I really do not think that you are an Iraqi I hope that this is clear J. Once I know that you are not chatting from Langley then I would be more frank with you LoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL. With respect to your questions I have to say that it is not a puzzle to know who is truly ruling Iraq,you should be very low in IQ if you did not establish who is the true ruler of Iraq now. ((No Disrespect OK)). In your previous article you have stated that only ruthless presidents will be capable of ruling the people of Iraq which I disagree with you completely, you seem to advocate for dictators and that gives a wrong idea on the Iraqi people. ((Is it clear, I hope it is)) You have mentioned the influence of religion in the daily politics of Iraq and to be quite honest with if that is the choice taken by the people of Iraq then neither you nor the current true rulers of Iraq ((If you finally came to understand who are they )) will have any choice except going with what the people of Iraq want, that is equally valid for me as well. Keeping in mind that the majority of the people of Iraq are indeed Muslims and 65% of them are from the majority ((I hope you know who are the majority )) they will one day establish a viable state and nothing will stop that, the Genii is out of the bottle and nothing will sent him back again . Regards Lucifer
My dear Lucifer, are you attempting to use sarcasm to explain your opinion??? Well I commend you for attempting to do so as this site needs an injection of humour, especially with all the anger and dissatisfaction that I see in most of the posts. However you just might have bitten off more than you can chew this time. Nice try but no cigar. I am an Iraqi, living and working in Baghdad which judging by some of the comments you are posting is more than you can claim to be (no disrespect OK!). It’s normally yanks that accuse me of being non Iraqi because of my English, although I wouldn’t dare to accuse you of being one of “our true leaders”. Again in time, once the US leaves Iraq much like they did in Vietnam and just about every other country they invaded in the 21st century, I would suggest that you look to our neighbors to the east who have positioned themselves perfectly to exert the principal long term influence on our culture and political preference (you know, that big country, population approx 80 million, language Persian, 8 years war etc, etc). In case you haven’t noticed Iraq is headed for a bloody civil war which will make what’s happening now look like a friendly game between Al Zawra and Al Talaba (these are 2 Iraqi football teams, but I’m sure you knew that already). I certainly don’t advocate dictatorships but each country has its different stages of development. What you fail to recognize about Iraqis is that we are not equipped to handle democracy. Nor is any other Arab state. For a democracy to work in Iraq you would first have to insure that it doesn’t fragment into separate states and without a strong leader this is inevitable. Democracy cannot be implemented by force. It might work in a small country like Kosovo but not in a country of Iraq’s vast cultural and religious divide. I was lucky enough to receive my education in the UK (a small modicum of IQ was required to complete my studies) before returning to my country and saw first hand how wonderful a living, working democracy can be but I recognized what you appear to have totally overlooked; it took hundreds of years for this system to be established and no matter how much you wish it to happen it will not do so in an Arab country. The 65% Iraqi majority you are referring to are uneducated and will always be ready to follow the cult of personality; hence Muqtada Al Sadr has such a fanatical following. This is a man who can barely string 2 sentences together in his native language let alone grasp the macro economical complexities of a working democratic system. You should be aware that the people that you see following him around like puppy dogs are the same people that used to dance like monkeys for Saddam. Who says "democracy" is best for all people? This form of political manifest destiny will have serious repercussions in years to come. The US are starting to realize this now and it won’t take long for them to flee with their tails between their legs and revert to buying their way in with the next dictator, who ever that may be, God help us. Iraq will become another Islamic state and do you really think that’s what’s best for Iraqis? This war, started under false pretenses by the Bush administration, will only cement that fact. The Islamic influence will never permit even partial democracy and I say this as a Muslim. Nothing can be done to create a stable democracy in Iraq. Iraq is an invented place, created by treaty between European imperial powers at the end of the 19th Century. The three major groups in Iraq, the Sunni, Shia, and Kurds have been enemies for hundreds of years. The only way to get them to live under one roof, so to speak, was to have a strong man like Saddam. Once the influence of a dictator is gone, these three groups will not willingly live together. This is plain to see for even the less enlightened amongst us. For a country like ours to achieve democracy we would have to go through hundreds of years of social, political, cultural, economic, diplomatic, revolutionary and constitutional change. The only thing this Genie that was forced out of his bottle can bring is years of civil war, millions of lost lives and the end result will be the same. Another dictator. Is this what you think the people of Iraq want?. Just think about it. Regards. Azinorum
Azinorum you are the so very right. I agree to everything you said. This is what everyone should understand. All Iraqis. But I think that Islamic influence could create democracy if and only if the whole country was muslim, because you can't really have democracy with many different beliefs...well may be you could but not in Iraq.
Zeynab. Happy to hear that you agree with my comments. I still don’t agree that countries can achieve democratic status using religion as a platform. Not just Islam but all religions. History has taught us this over and over again. However I will leave that for another post. I left Iraq to study in the UK and after completing my degree, I then worked in the UK for 2 years before returning to Baghdad in the early 90’s to set up a business and try my luck in my home country. In that time I met some extraordinary men and women working in the Iraqi Oil Industry that was slowly being crippled by the UN Sanctions. These highly educated people, most of whom received their degrees and diplomas in the UK, were holding their refineries together on what I can only describe as string and plaster. I took many foreign companies to visit the refineries and they were full of admiration for the ability of the Iraqis to sustain their refineries and keep them running despite lacking essential spare parts. Their resourcefulness was extraordinary. Some of the same Engineers who were in charge of mechanical and electrical departments in the early 90’s are now director generals and deputy DG’s and we have become firm friends not allowing business interests to interfere with our personal feelings. They now face extraordinary pressure from people in their own refineries. Right after the war the Hizib Al Dawa party recruited many of the junior engineers and recent graduates from the Oil Institutes in Baghdad and strong armed these DG’s into elevating their recruits into influential positions within the refinery despite not having the experience to handle their newly appointed positions and the responsibilities that came with the job. The DG’s and head of departments were and continue to be exasperated by this development which has gone from bad to worse since the fall of Baghdad. After “democracy” was introduced, elections were also forced on Refineries rendering senior members powerless to promote employees on the basis of performance and experience. Instead they had to cow tow pressure put on them by “political parties” who are now running the show in Iraq. In many cases they were threatened with their lives unless they complied with the thugs wishes. This influence also extends to forcing the commercial and technical departments to award contracts to “cover companies” who have made a dreadful mess of projects which eventually had to be scrapped and re-tendered wasting valuable time and resources which Iraq cannot afford to squander. All concerned wanted an end to the Baathist regime as during Saddam’s time these engineers and technicians were dreadfully under paid and had to supplement their incomes by whatever means necessary but all of them would gladly trade their newly increased wages for the peace of mind that comes with having job satisfaction, personal integrity, basic services such as electricity and fuel, and most important of all; security for their families.
The reason I mention the above is to give you and other readers an example of how bad things are, not only on a governmental level but right down to the bare roots of Iraq’s infrastructure. This is not democracy. This is dictatorship splintered into pieces making it impossible to hold those responsible accountable for their actions. There are simply too many dictators fighting for their own interests and no one can do a thing about it. I won’t go into how the Americans awarded themselves contracts only to sub-contract the work to Iraqi companies for a fraction of the cost because it has already been well documented. These are foreigners who are only looking out for their own interests and who can blame them. After all they don’t give a dam about Iraq and its people. What I feel is heartbreaking is that it didn’t take much persuading for the Iraqis to sink themselves into this pit of corruption and criminal activity. There was a genuine opportunity at the outset to show the American profiteers that we would not stand for this nonsense and insist on having the opportunity to do things correctly this time. Instead we gladly fell into the trap and will pay the price for years to come. I have said and will continue to say that democracy is earned and not given. We have to really want and understand it for it to work and not wait for it to be handed to us on a plate which is precisely what happened. I, like most of the people on this forum, would love to live in a democratic country but Iraq is simply not ready to handle such a massive transition. I am only being honest and sincerely hope that I am wrong but the escalating violence and bloodshed would suggest otherwise. In the end we have to blame ourselves for this tragedy and those of us that are currently out of Iraq can only look on as this new terrible chapter in our country’s history unfolds. May God help the people who are stuck in the middle of all this hate and self destruction. Regards. Azinorum
Main Page
Log In
Register
Printable Version
salam alekum - 
RE: salam alekum - 
. I agree to everything you said. This is what everyone should understand. All Iraqis. But I think that Islamic influence could create democracy if and only if the whole country was muslim, because you can't really have democracy with many different beliefs...well may be you could but not in Iraq.
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread