Does Israel have a right to exist? (Full Version)

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PL Project -> Does Israel have a right to exist? (6/17/2006 8:58:13 AM)

From 2001 to today, atleast 5,000(approx) palestinians have been killed by the Israelis, while only about 1,000 Israelites have been killed by the palestinians. About 82 palestinian children were killed by the Israelites before the first palestinian suicide bombing in Israel by the palestinians!!! And they call the palestinians as the real terrorists!!! What they don't say is the illegal military occupation. So the next time you hear about the so-called 'palestinian' terrorism, remember this post and ask yourself who the real terrorists are???



ariannationkurdistan -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (6/18/2006 6:09:11 PM)

so what
http://www.muslim-markt.de/Palaestina-Spezial/geschichtechronik/pogrom2005.htm

the number of palestnians being killed is about 4131
the majority of the victims are militants
the israeli military is able to kill the whole palestinian population but what we see , is that over 1000 israelis , of whom only 260 were members of the security forces , have been killed
the suicide attacks , only aimed at killing women and children were cowardfs act ands the response of the israeli army was too soft, in my opnion ,
thre are rulles of emngagement and thre are some things ypou do not in a war
the unability of the palestinians to fight the israeli forces does not giver them the right to attack diectly the civilian population
this was terrorism and there is no difference betwwen this and alqaida in iraq
and it is nbot anbout numbers
because there have been only some 1000 israeli deaths
we should not talk about the incidents
yes and israel has the right to exist



marwaniraq -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/13/2006 9:24:40 AM)

so u r happy **** of arian, dozens of civilians killed in palestine and lebanon in few days,  among them many children... f*** u and israel



baghdadi -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/14/2006 11:16:39 AM)

ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THIS AREA ARE FROM THE ISRAEL ! If there was no Israel no killing in Iraq and other places !



PL Project -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/16/2006 7:04:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan

so what
http://www.muslim-markt.de/Palaestina-Spezial/geschichtechronik/pogrom2005.htm

the number of palestnians being killed is about 4131
the majority of the victims are militants
the israeli military is able to kill the whole palestinian population but what we see , is that over 1000 israelis , of whom only 260 were members of the security forces , have been killed
the suicide attacks , only aimed at killing women and children were cowardfs act ands the response of the israeli army was too soft, in my opnion ,
thre are rulles of emngagement and thre are some things ypou do not in a war
the unability of the palestinians to fight the israeli forces does not giver them the right to attack diectly the civilian population
this was terrorism and there is no difference betwwen this and alqaida in iraq
and it is nbot anbout numbers
because there have been only some 1000 israeli deaths
we should not talk about the incidents
yes and israel has the right to exist



I want to tell you that in the 4000 odd palestinians killed, only about 10-15% were militants.
The others were civilians.
Even the UNO labels the occupaation of Palestine by Israel as 'ILLEGAL'.
A majority of the Jews in Israel today are the children of the people, who were ILLEGALLY smuggled to PALESTINE during  the II-WW.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan

thre are rulles of emngagement and thre are some things ypou do not in a war


Of course I do not know some things in the Israel-Palestine war, because most of the killings by the Israeli army are kept top-secret, but I do know the rules of engagement.
It seems that yo are enjoying the extermination of the Palestinians by the Israelis:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the response of the israeli army was too soft, in my opnion ,


The irony is that the world follows the west. Whatever the USA or other western countries mention, the world ASSUMES it to be true! It labels Hamas as a terrotist group, and the world believes it. It labels Israel to be a peaceful country, whereas the fact is that Israel does not know how to negotiate before waging a war. In its 59 year history, there has not been any negotiation before Israael waged a war, though its opponents called for peaceful negotiation.

                            I hope that will cconvince you, or else......       
                           

                            VERILY, YOU ARE ONE OF THE MISGUIDED!!!



Harry -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/18/2006 5:54:35 PM)


Yes, All nations have the right to exist, But, not by destroying another nation.



ariannationkurdistan -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/19/2006 7:19:33 AM)

there were several negotations

israel was founded by the united nations
you arabs made a huge mistake by not accepting the reality on the ground
ypu attacked and lost , israel gained ground and declared their independence
since then , no matter how you want to portray it
but israel defended itself against huge masses of arab armies and really has the right to exist , only because of their victorous campaigns against the arabs

the agreement of 1948 was between arabs and jews, there was no difference between jordanians and palestinians
the result was thebirth of jordan and israel , only after israel occupied the west bank ,
palestine was created , until 1983 , the west bank was officially occupied jordanian territory
what israel made , was a huge mistake by taking over west bank and gaza and going into lebanon
palestinans are the result of those aggressions
palestinians are the child of israel policy
the israelis reacted too sooftly and now they react to hard on lebanon
the desire to take over west and gaza was wrong but
as a i mentioned
the palestinian groups are driven by dreams and not by facts
the desire of hamas is still to destroy israel
the way , the palestinians waged war against the israelis was determined by the premise of genocide
the target of the attacks were israeli civilians and the plan is to annihilate the jewish ´population by physical force
the only reason, it did not work, is that they have not the capabilities to conduct it , but if they could , they would
even after gaining gaza , they could not stop
israel has negotiated several deals and today it is in peace with egypt and jordan
but is it lebanon , hamas or syria who do not recognize isreal or israel not recognizing them
how shoould there be negotations if this county is not even recognized
they attacked israel proper for several months
the hamas and hizbullah wated israel to react that way in order to strenghten themself inside the palestinain and lebanese population
israel is no longer occupiieng lebanese territory
the whole thing with the sheeba farms is only a game
israel withdrew from gaza
you have only applied for peace deals , the moment you realized youhave lost
saudiarboia ade a good response by blaming hisbulla fortheir really unprovocted attack
but if the arabs ( which hizbullah clearly wants ) want to link the palestinian conflict with the lebanese conflict , which was respolved in 2000 and creating one ftont againsat israel then they had to expect that israel would have reacted that way
this political parties wanted this to happen and now thre is war between lebanon and israel








tigris81 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/19/2006 5:03:07 PM)

 
The Israeli created Israel on the basis of a religious factor, that is that God apparantly promised it to them and that it is their promised blessed land. i have not seen one evidence from the Quran, Bible, or Tawrat (the origional, first version) that supports that. Many Tawarats have changed and one of very few origional Tawrats was stolen from the Iraqi National Museum in the fall of Baghdad (hint hint!). In addition to that, Jews, Muslim, and Christian were living together side by side before 1947. I even have a Jewish friend who admitted this and said that the creation of Israel was pointless and if anything, made the Jewish cause worse. 

Arianation,.... About the Arab-Israeli wars, the reason why the huge Arab armies lost is because of the Arab leaders themselves. There was treason. King Abdullah helped the Israelis in 1967 by revealing Gamal Abdul Nasser's plan, as did King Hassan of Morrocco. Plus, letsd not forget that the USA is on you-know-who's side. I dont think Henry Kissinger was just sitting in the Whitehouse and the Department of Foreign Affairs doing nothing.

Finally, in regards to today I think the Israelui retaliation is redicilous. Bombing and invading and blocking a whole country just for 2 soldiers (who were captured in Lebanese territory in the first place) is madness. I am anti-Hizbullah myself, and I do see them as a terrorist organisation (just like Hamas, Al Mehdi Army, and all these other militias in the region), but Isreal's response is far too extreme and as Harry mentioned, nations that deserve to exist should not do so by destroying other nations. This is called state-sponsored terrorism.

   



tigris81 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/19/2006 5:05:15 PM)

 
Since we are still in the lebanese topic, here's a few disturbing images from both the Israeli side and the Lebanese side of the border......


http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=476






Harry -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/19/2006 6:12:46 PM)


Let us not forget the fact that if it weren’t for the superior American fighter jets that “Golda Maier” begged for, “only god knows what she did to get those fighters” Israel would have been annihilated. But right after the Arab forces crossed the “Barlif” line (the one that was supposed to be impenetrable), The Israeli forces received the advanced fighting jets from the U.S. “While the Soviet Union refused the sale of their latest “Mig” fighters to the Arabs”. That is when Nasser had to withdraw his forces. I remember at the time he (Nasser) said, “We can easily destroy Israel, just like we did Barlif line, but we are not armed to fight against America.
 
Israelis not only used religion to acquire the land, but also a lot of bribes and other factors helped form Israel. Jews were creating chaos in Europe "Just like Kurds are doing these days in Iraq and other parts of the world". Those European countries agreed on the deal just to get rid of those Jews who were causing trouble. Russia voted for the formation of Israel for a similar reason, since it was the deciding vote, one can only imagine how much did it (Russia) gain from the deal.
 
The main reason why the U.S. is backing Israel is no mystery to anyone; the whole world knows that Israel is an excellent strategic location to launch war “If necessary” against Europe for one. In addition, it is a good subject to keep the Arab world forever occupied, while it “the U.S.” is draining the oil from the Arab kingdoms, and recently Iraq.
 
The U.S. president keeps repeating, “Israel has the right to defend itself”. Does that mean that Arabs have no right to do so?
 
No one admits these days that Israel was created by bribes, lies, and a lot of deception. Not to mention promises to the west, to be a good ally to gain control of the region. So stop telling me that what Israel did was legal, that Arabs (Palestinians) are terrorists, and that Palestinians have no right to fight for what belongs to them. Those who you see as terrorists, others see them as freedom fighters. It is true that Palestinians have made some huge mistakes at the time, but that does not diminish the fact that “Palestine” was stolen from Palestinians by evil forces.



ariannationkurdistan -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/20/2006 6:11:33 PM)

hey what happened to my answer



Iraqi100Percent -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/21/2006 10:54:48 AM)

tigris81

Israel was created based on a religious basis is nothing but a cover to bring in immigrants from all over the world. The whole government is nothing a communist regime that left Russia and migrated to Israel. Israel is no longer a Jewish state since you can aquire Israeli citizenship without being a Jew (they did that to counter the growing Arab population there). Religious Jews living in Israel suffer from the government and they are treated second class, this includes the Arab Jews who live there. Communisim left Russia to go to Israel. These are facts.

That's why you see many Kurds have a connection with Israel, because they are both marxists in idealogy, this is in contract with Iraqi marxists who are loyal to their country, Iraq.




rashi -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/30/2006 10:06:29 AM)

70% of US exports are weapons
american economy is crumbling
they print 20 billion dollars a week
which the chinese buy up so the can export their
useless junk back to the US - how long?
the dollar is only worthless paper

war is the only solution to keep the rich in power
we must get the rich destroy their corporations and mass media
politicians are only filthy puppets

every terror attack is orchestrated it's own governments
governments are against the poor - because there are to many

don't forget the jews are our ****in cousins
in front of almighty there is no such thing as a moslem, christian or jew etc.



scourgeofthegod -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (7/31/2006 8:50:06 PM)

Just for Information, In israel, everyone is soldier there is no such a civilian death except for babies, athough they are soldiers when they grow up..is it right arrion nation??????????? I hope this short answer wil satisfy you..



ariannationkurdistan -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/1/2006 7:32:19 PM)

this is not true
israels army has a peace time strenght of 185.000 soldiers plus another 445.000 in case of war
it means , that by all accounts , even in full war time strenght
only 630.000 israelis are obliged to fight
out of 7,05 millions israelis , of whom 5,5 milions are jews
1,3 milions arabs in israel are not obliged to perfornm their military service
and some 4.8-4,9 millions jews are civilians , even if the israeli military is fully mobilized and at  war time strenght
in all there are always
1,5 millions arabs druzes etc and some 4,8 millions jewish civilians
6,3 to 6.4 milllions are civilians and sorry but i not count reservists as military , the majority  of this people would never fight , because they are too old or only serve in the logistic department etc.
that is  the truth

just compare syria to it
syria has a population of about 19 millions
there are 380.000 active  soldiers plus another 132.000 reserves and some 400.000 in the militia forces
a total of 912.000 would be obliged to fight

how high is the possibility , that if you attack syria, some reservists would be killed too
would you really count them as military deaths
i think not



scourgeofthegod -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/6/2006 12:15:17 AM)

Of course , You have to take those reservist into account, finally they help soldiers although they are not actively holding a gun. and as far as I know ( I may be misleaded by some resources) everyone who are able to hold a gun is a soldier in Israel. correct me if i am wrong. and also on your post , you say palestinians was drivien by a dream. but dont forget some dreams come true who know? everything start by dreaming. and in strategy game, for example , if you have a ship and your enemies has a staronger and invinsible ship (some people think ) it is not wisdom thing to attack it with your that ship which you will already lose.but if you have relatively small ,many ships you can attack the enemy from different directions and your getting killed chance is as less a proportion your small ship to your big ship as in a war.  and it can bring you a victory . for example palestinian hamas, lebanon hisbullah and future other groups can give huge damage than all arab nations couldnot do in the war against israel. plus the cost of war to isrel is over 200 000 $ a week. wasnt a rteason for withdrawal from jordan before? money, money...How long US can support them ? a few more decade ? when the tax payers see their money i flowing into Israel. good luck ...what if some kurdish sell their lands (mostly to israel) they will have same problem wont they? every country has a right to exist of course, but by killing others , you cant build a nation especially in the middle of middle east. you cant survive like amerika becauseyou have to live with them .but amerika doesnot have to with them ..they are far away from middle east. but israel what they will do? they cant put a wheel under their land and dragthe country to sibiria or somewhere else. Israel has to realise that they have to live with them. otherwise, sooner or later good bye.................................................... 



PL Project -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/12/2006 10:35:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan

there were several negotations

Not true!!! negotiations only with the americans and party, not with arabs. Only wars with ARABS!!!
quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
israel was founded by the united nations

True, but against the wishes of those already present there. The 1947 vote in the UN was conducted only by 53 countries. The rules were like this:
Every negative vote against the creation of Israel should be countered with 3 positive votes in its favour.
The Americans threatened all the 53 countries to meet the decision of the cretion of Israel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
you arabs made a huge mistake by not accepting the reality on the ground

For your kind info, Iam not an Arab. I'm from Bangalore, India.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
ypu attacked and lost , israel gained ground and declared their independence
since then , no matter how you want to portray it
but israel defended itself against huge masses of arab armies and really has the right to exist , only because of their victorous campaigns against the arabs


In the year 1947, the Israelis started the war, only because the palestinian women drew a few litres of water from a well which the Israelis believed was taken from its territory, even before any such division of palestine was made!!!
Because the Egyptians nationalised the Suez Canal(which was constructed and maintained by them) and closed it, the Israelis started their conquests of the middle-east and illegally captured the Arab territories which are still in its possession.

The recent Israeli aggression against Lebanon and Palestine was started by the Israelis. The reason, Lebanon and Palestine have 3 Israeli soldiers as prisoners, whereas the truth is that Israel have thousands of Arab prisoners, a majority of them civilians and 75% of them women and children.

So, which war are you talking about which the Arabs started???

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the agreement of 1948 was between arabs and jews, there was no difference between jordanians and palestinians


Who told you that??? Jordan was completely separate palestine, since it was ruled by a King and palestine was a completely different land!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the result was thebirth of jordan and israel ,

False, the result was the birth off Israel and terror, Jordan was already present.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
only after israel occupied the west bank ,
palestine was created ,

Why, when the 1948 agreement promised the creation of palestine as early as 1950s???

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
until 1983 , the west bank was officially occupied jordanian territory

This what I say!!! This is waht Israel did:
1. Promised to create Palestine.
2. Captured lands from Jordan illegally.
3. Handed some of the waste lands to palestinians and created Palestine.
4. Still not allowing peace to reside in the mideast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
what israel made , was a huge mistake by taking over west bank and gaza and going into lebanon

Everything the Israelis are doing today and have done before are huge huge huge mistakes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
palestinans are the result of those aggressions
palestinians are the child of israel policy

False. The palestinians are not the children of any foolish policy of any fanatic country. They are the children of the Noble Prophet Ismail(Bible version: Prophet Ishmael). The Jews are of course the descendants of Prophet Yousuf(Bible version: Prophet Joseph), but the Jews present today are the children of treachery, butchery, ignorance, the blind, the deaf, the dumb and anyone doing crimes, although, the Jews who were present at the time off the birth of Prophet Musa(Bible version: Prophet Moses) were noble and faithful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the israelis reacted too sooftly and now they react to hard on lebanon

Nothing is too soft for the Israelis, since all they do are the worst sins - genocide, extermination, crime, treachery, and everything they are doing today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the desire to take over west and gaza was wrong but
as a i mentioned
the palestinian groups are driven by dreams and not by facts

Everything the Israelis are doing today is wrong, hence you cannot classify their acts into the correct and the wrong.
The palestinian groups are driven not by dreams or facts, but by their emotions, their experiences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the desire of hamas is still to destroy israel

Yes it is. And why not??? Any intruder gaining control over some other land should be crushed!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the way , the palestinians waged war against the israelis was determined by the premise of genocide

I don't understand which war was started by the palestinians!!!
All the so-called 'terrorist attacks' by the palestinians are a result of the shameful killings by the Israelis of the Palestinians. Emotions last for ever.....in the mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the target of the attacks were israeli civilians and the plan is to annihilate the jewish ´population by physical force

What Physsical force are you talking about, when all the Palestinian strength is being destroyed day by day by the west and the Israelis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
the only reason, it did not work, is that they have not the capabilities to conduct it , but if they could , they would

Absolutely. It is all due to the Israelis that the Palestinians do not have thecapabilities even to feed their own families.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
even after gaining gaza , they could not stop

Yes, the Israelis could not stop their terror and blamed the Palestinians for the trouble in the mideast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
israel has negotiated several deals and today it is in peace with egypt and jordan
but is it lebanon , hamas or syria who do not recognize isreal or israel not recognizing them

Negotiations by Israel only to buy time for preparations of future wars.
Nobody recognises each other, neither of them.





sadiq2006 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/16/2006 6:20:36 PM)

[;)] israel exist because allah in the quran mentioned to give then a second chance , not becasue allah likes them just to give them a second chance.



PL Project -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/18/2006 8:45:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sadiq2006

[;)] israel exist because allah in the quran mentioned to give then a second chance , not becasue allah likes them just to give them a second chance.


Agreed. But it is not mentioned in the Quran that the Jews supress the original inhabitants, the Palestinians, so cruelly as it is today. Isn't it so???

Then why are they doing all these acts of cruelty???
Even the orthodox Jews say today that according to their scriptures, the Jews are forbiddden to have a country of their own.

Any ideas why the present in the mideast is like this today???



sadiq2006 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (8/21/2006 10:40:11 AM)

[:D] well PL PROJECT why is the middle east are like this they are stupid only thinking for money and for women and do not forget that allah the mighty god said in the quran that the muslims were before good people and now they stupid because like i said before only for money and for women especilly the arabs my fear friend and the kurds the same thing and also prophet mohammed ( peace be upon him) said before 1400 years ago that the muslims are afraid and not thinking of helping each other or respecting each other now you know why my dear friend and in the future i will tell you more



Jaafer -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (9/6/2006 6:29:27 PM)

Sadiq2006
I do not know from where you got your stupid explanation? If some of the eastern people Arab/Kurd/Iranain are for women ..etc why they have to go to the west or the North; Russai to America for their bad deeds?

The reasons behind the mess in our land is the Othman Empire which left the life science behind while concentrating on mostly the rituals  of worshiping Allah. During that time the Europeans' sceinces, Art ..etc picked up. The rate of killing themselves and us has increased and we are being butchred for the last  300 years or so.

The European public are more on the naive and selfish side than being savages (easily taken for a rid) the jewish and the western political leadership are the other way around. The destrcution of the Middle East is for the sake of the jews, crusaders, freemasons, multinationals and all of their advanced sciences against us. On the other hand we only have ourselves and saddly look at what we are doing to ourselves.

The fact that they do not need to destroy us (and do what ever they are doing to themselves, look at the way they are (not) dressed) but still they do, must shows who is controlling them is of extra ordinary evil power. We need faith and science to liberate our areas. By occupying Iraq and destroying our industrial base they are continuing to deny us the second but they can not deny us the first. If we work and begg Allah to help us, if He wants he will as En Sha' Allah it will happen soon first in Britain.  



sadiq2006 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (9/7/2006 4:20:13 PM)

[:@] first of all jaafer do not tell where did i get these stupit things respect yourself yes the arabs and the kurds are stupid only for women and money if you the history from 1400 years ago in the islamic days after when prophet mohammed died everyone became lazy and changing their riligion so that is why they failed in umayen and abbasian and andalus and those basterds otomman empire i hate them because they destroyed iraq or mesopotamia so next respect yourself and do not teach me history crazy guy yes they lazy from 1400 years ago ok .



Jaafer -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (9/11/2006 4:59:14 PM)

another jeja talking you know what.



sadiq2006 -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (9/12/2006 3:48:45 PM)

[:@] hey jaafer crazy guy what is that jeja is that one of your stupid words again like the stupid arabs from 1400 years ago .[:'(]



jukka -> RE: Does Israel have a right to exist? (9/13/2006 1:41:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaafer

Sadiq2006
I do not know from where you got your stupid explanation? If some of the eastern people Arab/Kurd/Iranain are for women ..etc why they have to go to the west or the North; Russai to America for their bad deeds?

The reasons behind the mess in our land is the Othman Empire which left the life science behind while concentrating on mostly the rituals  of worshiping Allah. During that time the Europeans' sceinces, Art ..etc picked up. The rate of killing themselves and us has increased and we are being butchred for the last  300 years or so.

The European public are more on the naive and selfish side than being savages (easily taken for a rid) the jewish and the western political leadership are the other way around. The destrcution of the Middle East is for the sake of the jews, crusaders, freemasons, multinationals and all of their advanced sciences against us. On the other hand we only have ourselves and saddly look at what we are doing to ourselves.

The fact that they do not need to destroy us (and do what ever they are doing to themselves, look at the way they are (not) dressed) but still they do, must shows who is controlling them is of extra ordinary evil power. We need faith and science to liberate our areas. By occupying Iraq and destroying our industrial base they are continuing to deny us the second but they can not deny us the first. If we work and begg Allah to help us, if He wants he will as En Sha' Allah it will happen soon first in Britain.  


This is a nice world with crazy people like Jaafer living in it. They view everything negatively without raising up the positive side of things. They rely on conspiracy theories instead of generally proven facts. Their world view is like a deck of cards but they yell so loudly that no-one has the chance to question their belief.

Good people should stand up against these kinds of lunatics or everything will be a mess. Look at history and see it repeated again.



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