is iraq losing his arabic caracter
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/17/2006 12:29:27 PM
|
|
|
ariannationkurdistan
Posts: 37
Score: -1
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
|
i know that irsq is traditioally a mulitcultural nation but the majority group are arabs and were arabs since it begining
but thre are two new developments threatining the arabic majroty caracter of iraq
when iraq declared its idependence
of 3,5 million iraqis , 400.000 were christians, 800.000 kurds , 60.000 tukmens and 100.000 jews
the rest were arabs
but over the the time ,
the arab dominated governments arabized conssequently iraq
first they forced out all 140.000 jews when israel was founded
then they forced out failli kurds out of the country and implremented a systematic ethnic cleansing campaign against the kurds
and last but not least , some groups i the society and the state forced out the christians
in 1990 thre were over 1,4 millios christians in iraq , today , they are believed to make about 400.000 in iraq
but on the other part of the story
two developments are really are threat to the arab caracter
first the war between 1990-1991 , the arabs lost every year 10% to 20% of the menpower avaible every year
300.000-500.000 soldiers died during this time
if we consider that kurds did not fight in the war , it is a lot ,thre were only 5 million arab men at that time
it did no affect thebirth rate but it did not stop , in 1991 , the shia uprising and its effrets killed another 300.000
but until that point , the other big gruop , the kurds suffered too a lot
after that, the situation changed
the kurdish region managed to decrease child mortality and in the same time the birth rate was the same or a little but higher
in the last three years , the situation changed dramatically
every day dozens of arabs are killed , it affects again the male population but this times the kurds do not really suffer a lot of victims , the stress , a three time higher child mortality must have an impact on the situation
as you all know , in muslim society , nearly all women have only children, when they are maried
and second , you do only marry when you have an icome , but in the arab region of iraq , the unemployement rate is really high, a lot of people cannot afford to have a woman , a lot of men have sent their women and children out of the country abd the daily death rate do have a big impact
in my opinion , the kurdish percentage is increasing ,
just one exemple , i it said , that the k.r.g had 3.9 millions in 2002 and today , thre are 5 millions in the
1 million in 4 years do mean 250.000 every year, i know that thre was a lot migration, but the fertility rate in iraqi kurdistan stood at 7,7 in 2002 , in the reat of the country , it stood at 5
the other big threat is the shia-sunni divide
what do you think
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/19/2006 7:24:35 PM
|
|
|
baghdadi
Posts: 41
Score: 0
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline
|
Like it or not IRAQ is the heart and soul of the arab world. These are where real men come from. That is much of why the Americans/British/Jews want to destroy it and YOUR KURDISH FRIENDS are helping. The Kurds say saddam is so bad, yet A MAN WAS PUT IN JAIL THE OTHER DAY FOR 3 YEARS BECAUSE HE SPOKE OUT AGAINST MR. BARZANI, It is all about those rulers trying to get money in there pockets
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/20/2006 4:20:19 AM
|
|
|
havalkaka
Posts: 25
Score: 0
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: baghdadi
Like it or not IRAQ is the heart and soul of the arab world. These are where real men come from. That is much of why the Americans/British/Jews want to destroy it and YOUR KURDISH FRIENDS are helping. The Kurds say saddam is so bad, yet A MAN WAS PUT IN JAIL THE OTHER DAY FOR 3 YEARS BECAUSE HE SPOKE OUT AGAINST MR. BARZANI, It is all about those rulers trying to get money in there pockets
I agree with you about the so called kurdish leaders. These are a group of war lords who are no different from Tikritis except that they can polish american shoes better than tikritis.
Whether it is Masoud or Jalal we all know them and their history with my respect to Masoud's father who worked all his life for kurds then destroyed them in one telegram.
As to Arab identity of iraq. I have to respect the majority as much as I expect them to respect our rights of second majority.
I don't like,however, empty slogans and need not worry about whether Iraq is part of Arab world or not. Where is Arab world anyway??
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/20/2006 11:33:34 AM
|
|
|
Harry
Posts: 463
Score: 11
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: California
Status: offline
|
Iraq should never be a part of the Arab world, or Arab league. The Arabic countries have done nothing to help Iraq; on the contrary, they caused nothing but death and destruction, and the best proof is what they did in 1991. Instead of helping the Iraqi people, they sided with the west and participated in the economic sanctions that lead to nothing but starvation and the spread of diseases among Iraqis.
Not to mention what they are doing nowadays; that is, continuing the destruction of Iraq at a larger scale, by supplying the insurgents with people who hate Iraq and Iraqis, and want nothing but taking control of the natural riches of Iraq.
_____________________________
God bless the whole world, No exceptions.
الدين لله و الوطن للجميع
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/20/2006 11:50:32 AM
|
|
|
ariannationkurdistan
Posts: 37
Score: -1
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
|
in my opinion ,
the problem of iraq were always the arabs themself
not the arab league or the u.s
the arabs in iraq have always attacked and opressed other ethnic and religous groups in iraq
they pushed the jews and christians out of iraq , tried to annihilate the kurds and today
because they are powerless , they attack eachother and kill thier compatriots by the thousands
people made a lot of jokes about the kurdish civil war , which in all killed 2000 and said kurds were crueler then sadam who has killed 500.000 kurds
but every month that amount of 2000 is killed in baghdad alone
more arabs have died from arabs then from american bombs
i do not know when arabs will be find peace again
but i think that it will not happen that soon and even if , arabs will never agan have the strenght , they used to have
they had their oppurtunity all they did was destroying
and today they destroy themself
i am very glad that the kurdish population is higher then the arab one because one day ,
when arabs will loose out their big majoity role ,
it will be the key to peace and fredom in iraq
< Message edited by ariannationkurdistan -- 4/20/2006 11:56:16 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 8:21:48 AM
|
|
|
vivian
Posts: 10
Score: 0
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline
|
So, generally speaking, you´re anti-Arab in the first place???
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 9:39:26 AM
|
|
|
ariannationkurdistan
Posts: 37
Score: -1
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
|
i blame the arabs for the situation
yes abd i am sure that they themself destroy their position
iraq population composition is changing and i really hope that we kurds reach 30% or 35% of the total population one day from 20%-25% now , because of our higher fertility rates and lower mortality rates , and that the christians and jews come back and that the kurdish parties stays united toward the central government , that is why we have been both times the second party in the elections and one day , if the shia alliance falls apart , perhaps the strongest
then iraq will never again be ruled only by arabs
and their ill minded policy of arab nationalism and arabization programms will fail finally
i want iraq back like it was before the creation of this country but this time in a democratic manner
< Message edited by ariannationkurdistan -- 4/21/2006 9:54:35 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 12:36:20 PM
|
|
|
vivian
Posts: 10
Score: 0
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline
|
So, you would like Iraq in the times of the British mandate??? The monarchy? Or which "time" exactly do you have in mind? I am afraid the Jews are not coming back... they´re scared even in Israel... Times have changed. Nothing is going backwards. Fortunately or unfortunately.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 1:48:00 PM
|
|
|
deimos
Posts: 39
Score: -2
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline
|
Iraq has never been really a part of the Arab world.
The Kurdish will play a strong role in this new country, that will be more multi cultural and Kurdish than any Iraq before.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 2:02:32 PM
|
|
|
vivian
Posts: 10
Score: 0
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline
|
I disagree with you. Quoting Baghdadi: Iraq is the heart and soul of the Arab world, and will be.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 4:18:13 PM
|
|
|
tigris81
Posts: 215
Score: 4
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
when iraq declared its idependence
of 3,5 million iraqis , 400.000 were christians, 800.000 kurds , 60.000 tukmens and 100.000 jews
the rest were arabs
but over the the time
Arian, you have to be a bit more specific when you say 'Christians' and 'Jews', because alot of them are Arabs. Being Arab is an ethnicity, not a religion.
quote:
the arab dominated governments arabized conssequently iraq
first they forced out all 140.000 jews when israel was founded
I disagree with that. The majority of Iraq's Jews left their Iraq voluntarily because they feared any revenge attacks, but they were not forced out by any Iraqi government. In fact, there were bombings against their community in the 1950's it was the Mossad that was behind that, because it is in the interest of Israel that they immigrate there, particularly considering that alot of them occupyed good jobs (doctors, engineers, accountants, etc..) which would benefit Israel in its early stage as a state.
quote:
in 1990 thre were over 1,4 millios christians in iraq , today , they are believed to make about 400.000 in iraq
Thats very sad and saddens me when I think of it. But just to correct you, today's figure is around 600,000. There were 750,000 just before the war in 2003.
quote:
the other big threat is the shia-sunni divide
what do you think
Yes, it is a threat. if both sides start killing each other, then the demographics will change to the advantage of other groups.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 4:36:11 PM
|
|
|
tigris81
Posts: 215
Score: 4
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
I agree with Harry.
Iraq never benefited from being in the Arab League or part of the Arab word, but foreign Arabs benefited from Iraq and when the time came, they back-stabbed Iraq. First in 1991, and even in 2003, a few Arab states back and assisted in the Western aggression. The other day I was watching a Kuwaiti stage show (masrahiya) where they still make fun of Iraqis by portraying Iraqi woman as cheap ****s and men as farmers and thieves and thats a recent post-war show. What disgusts me is how Jaafari makes official visits to Kuwait and offers Kuwaiti firms contracts and kisses their back-sides while before 1990, they use to kiss our back-sides.
Iraq should pull out of the Arab league and gain its independence and remain a multi-ethnic nation without the influence of any greater external ethnic nation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/21/2006 4:53:21 PM
|
|
|
tigris81
Posts: 215
Score: 4
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ariannationkurdistan
iraq population composition is changing and i really hope that we kurds reach 30% or 35% of the total population one day from 20%-25% now , because of our higher fertility rates
Eat alot of dates and almonds, marry 4 wives, and the population will grow as fast as a rocket.  .
quote:
and lower mortality rates , and that the christians and jews come back
I hope so too, but just for your information, most of them are Arabs (in addition to Assyrians, Armenians, and Kurds), regardless of their religion.
quote:
they pushed the jews and christians out of iraq , tried to annihilate the kurds and today
because they are powerless , they attack eachother and kill thier compatriots by the thousands
I dont know where you get your facts from, but the Arabs nor any other Iraqi group pushed anyone out of Iraq. If you want to blame anyone, then blame Saddam and the Baathist regime, or blame the Zionists. Many Arabs, including myself, have been forced to live outside our homeland, just like you, just like Harry, just like Deimos,and just like 3 million other Iraqis from all backgrounds and religions. Look at the bigger picture, many Iraqis are leaving Iraq, who will benefit from this? Arabs or Zionists? you tell me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 11:31:10 AM
|
|
|
vivian
Posts: 10
Score: 0
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline
|
So what do you think now? Is it going to be any better with the new Prime Minister?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 3:13:29 PM
|
|
|
tigris81
Posts: 215
Score: 4
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
Hi Vivian,
I dont know who your question was directed to, but in my view I do not think that things will get any better with the new prime minister. Jawad Al Maliki is an old ally of Jaafari, and therefore he is going to continue Jaafari's policies. Further to that, he is a secartarian hardliner. So I dont think much is going to change. The 555 list lacks good decent leaders. Maybe Laith Kubba is the only decent person from that list, but then again he's weak.
< Message edited by tigris81 -- 4/22/2006 3:19:59 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 5:16:06 PM
|
|
|
Jaafer
Posts: 71
Score: 0
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline
|
[/link]
[link=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=section§ionName=about]
[/link]
[link=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=section§ionName=membership]
[/link]
[link=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=home]Home Page
America's "War on Terrorism"
by Michel
Chossudovsky
The Globalization
of Poverty
by Michel
Chossudovsky
Celsius 911
World Takeover
& the War of Terror
Produced by
Jeremy Wright
April 22, 2006
National Movement to Impeach President Bush
The “Great Kurdistan” threat
by Gilles Munier
April 22, 2006
uruknet.info
Numbering 30 millions, Kurds are distributed over four countries, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. In Iraq, Massud Bargain and Jalal Talabani are said to be in a position to declare the independence of Kurdistan. The map of the new State as submitted last July to the "National Assembly" comprises territories over which the Kurds cannot have any claim…but which are oil-soaked. No doubt that such a "Great Kurdistan" if unilaterally founded would generate a string of conflicts which will destabilize the whole of the Middle East. Nobody save the United States and Israel has nothing to gain, least of all, the Kurds.
The 1920 Treaty of Sevres, art 62, repealed by the Lausanne Treaty in July 1923, made provision for "local self-rule" of territories "where the Kurdish element was dominant". A map of Kurdistan, which could be to-day labelled as "the Very Large Kurdistan" and was handed over at Sevres by the Kurdish delegation extended from the coastline of the Mediterranean to the Arab Gulf….Something totally unacceptable for the big powers of the days –France, Great Britain- for Turkey, the Arabs and the Armenians who claim lands which the Kurds wished to lay their hands on.
In Mesopotamia, it incorporated the Willayet of Mossul, the Sindjar close to the Syrian border, the Sulimaniya region, Kirkuk and stopped at Qanaqin, in the north-east of Baghdad on the border with Persia. As an answer to that claim, the British planned to set up a Kurdish kingdom in the north of the Mossul Willayet only. In doing so they intended to undermine the Turks who had their eyes locked on Mossul. The project was abandoned after the creation of Iraq (1) because the north of Iraq had revealed huge oil resources.
Kurdish revolts in Iraq
Ever since all Kurdish revolts in Iraq have erupted in the name of home rule but the question of the administrative borders has scarcely been tackled.
For the pro-British Prime Minister Nouri Said, born by a Kurdish mother, home rule was not the prime goal of the insurgents. In October 1930, he reported the results of talks with them to the High Commissioner in Baghdad : " First, it was a question of guarantees …then the Kurds showed their discontent at the existing administration,…then they demanded a quasi autonomy and now it comes to secession"(2).
Never during the Ottoman Empire has Iraqi Kurdistan existed as a State in the Western sense of the word. There were Kurdish principalities more or less dependent on the Sultan in Istanbul, but they covered a very small part of Kurdistan.
The Sheikh Mahmud Berzendji, self-proclaimed "humkudar" (king) of Kurdistan in 1922 ruled over the Sulumanyia region and the Kirkuk members of his council, actually his henchmen- were all…Turkmen. His rebellion was crashed in a heavy-handed manner by the British and he was deported to the south of Iraq.
Another revolt in 1931: Sheikh Ahmed Barzani, - a colourful man who had in mind to go over to Christianity with his tribe- succeeded in gaining control of a territory stretching from the Turkish border to Aqra, in the north of Mossul. The RAF shelled his HQ and he fled to Turkey.
His brother, Mustapha Barzani took over and went to Iran with over a thousand fighters eager to assist the small Republic of Mahabad born on January 22, 1946. Deserted by its Soviet ally, Mahabad fell less than a year later. Its President Qazi Muhammad was sentenced to death and hanged. Mustapha Barzani took shelter in the Soviet Union.
Mustapha Barzani " Kassem’s Soldier"
Barzani’s return to Baghdad eleven years later, after the overthrow of the Hashemite monarchy by General Abdel Karim Kassem was a triumph. Several Kurdish ministers among them Sheikh Mahmud’s son joined the government. Against the commitment that the Kurds "national rights" within the "Iraqi entity" would be guaranteed alongside with the publishing of Kurdish newspapers, Barzani branded himself " Kassem’s Soldier" and helped the "Zaim" (the Leader) as Kassem was named to repress in a bloodbath an Arab nationalist revolt led by Colonel Abdel Wahab Chawaf in Mossul. The colonel was given the fatal blow on his hospital bed. Four hundred of his followers – in particular Shammar Beduins - were massacred in a mosque by Kurdish militias and the "People’s Resistance Forces".
But Barzani’s support went farther. In May 1959, he lent a hand to the Iraqi army in quashing a revolt of Kurds chiefs in the Rawanduz area. More than 24 000 Kurds fled to Turkey and Iran!
Relationships between Barzani and General Kassem deteriorated after a long stay of Barzani in Moscow, the Soviets signalling thus that they did not appreciate the "Zaim" decision to evict the Iraqi Communist Party from power. Once Barzani back in the mountains, the war flared up again. However, the demands that he put forward to Kassem in March 1962 were strangely mild. They dealt with the opening of schools, agricultural and industrial development, and the recognition of the Kurdish language. No question of self-rule or borders.
Self-rule demands
On February 8th,, 1963, the Baathists and the Nasserians toppled Kassem and Abdul Salam Aref came to power. On March 4th,1963, Barzani handed over a list of claims with an ultimatum to a delegation from Baghdad at the meeting of Kani Maran (the Snakes spring) in which he made a demand for self-rule for a region composed of the liwas (provinces) of Sulamayia, Kirkuk, Arbil and the districts of the liwas of Mossul and Diyala as well as the share-out of the oil income among Arabs and Kurds. If this was rejected, he threatened to resume the fighting within three days.
As foreseen, Baghdad did not meet the unrealistic demands of Barzani which was what he wanted. General Aref however did concede to the "national rights of the Kurdish people" on the basis of decentralisation. It was a tremendous progress given the then political environment in the Middle East. However, the bidding went up. In April 1963, Jalal Talabani, head of the progressive current within the Democratic Party of Kurdistan, demanded the replacement of Iraq by a bi-national State. For Baghdad, it was a provocation. The Kurds blew up oil installations in Kirkuk !
In November 1963, Aref removed the Baathists from power and Barzani’s claims suddenly became less urgent. The DPK accused him of softening and Talabani had to run away to Iran. His followers were chased by Obeidollah Barzani.
In 1964, new turnabout: Mustapha Barzani rejected the return of "liberated zones" under the control of Baghdad. He concluded a secret alliance with the Shah of Iran, the financial and military assistance of which - as well as the United States’ and Israel’- enabled him to control a mountainous territory from the Syrian border to Qabaqin , leaving out the big Kurdish cities. Jalal Talabani sided with Baghdad and took part with his Kurdish units of mercenaries in the battle of Hendrin Mount (2875m) against Idriss Barzani and his 1700 pershmergas.
Self-rule for the Kurds in the offing
On July 1968, 17, General Abdel Rahman Aref –who took over after the death of his brother in a helicopter crash- is overthrown. The Baath led by General Hassan al Bakr came to power and as a start, decided to support Jalal Talabani who was hunting down the Barzanists for the Baathists. …The fighting was fierce against the background of the latent Iraqo-Iranian conflict until Saddam Hussein then Vice President of the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) was put in charge of negotiating with the insurgents.
On March 1970, 11 Arabs and Kurds reached a historical agreement whereby self-rule would be granted, within four years, to governorates inhabited mainly by Kurds. The Kurdish language was to become one of the official language along with Arabic in the autonomous region, the Vice President of the Republic of Iraq had to be a Kurd and the mercenary units of Talabani, be decommissioned. At last, the DPK was allowed to resume its activities and publish his mouthpiece "Al Taakki".
During the four ensuing years, the administrative borderline and the statute of the autonomous region were heatedly discussed by Saddam Hussein and the DPK. Idriss Barzani, in the name of his father, using a XVIIIth century map demanded the integration to the future autonomous region of the Sindjar –including the Aïn Zaleh oilfield- Kirkuk and Kanaqin. Saddam Hussein could not agree to granting territorial rights to Kurds in the regions where they did not compose the majority of inhabitants, even it had been so in the past (3).
Finally, the selected governorates were: Dohuk, Arbil, Sulimayia. Kirkuk governorate with its numerous "multiethnic sectors" that is composed of "several non-Kurdish minorities, such as the Turkmen"- was excluded from the blueprint for an autonomous province.
The Autonomous Region of Kurdistan
Despite this obvious progress, Mustapha Barzani held his ground as he feared that the autonomy would jeopardize the power of the feudal chiefs which the peasants served like in the Middle Ages. He certainly did not favour the implementation in Kurdistan of the agrarian reform carried out in the rest of the country. As usual, he bid further by reiterating his demand over Kirkuk and the share-out of oil income in relation with the number of people in those regions. Financial autonomy he said is more vital than administrative autonomy. Saddam Hussein refused again saying that a State has to treat all regions equally in terms of development regardless of the number of its inhabitants. For Saddam Hussein, Barzani spoke of a confederation no longer of a autonomy.
The signing of the Iraqi-Soviet friendship Treaty in April 1972 and the nationalisation of the Iraq Petroleum Company( IPC) brought about a change and gave Barzani an other opportunity to resume the fighting. As soon as May 1972, the CIA covertly financed his activities. Therefore, when on March, 11th, 1974, self-rule was granted to the Kurds, he dispelled it. He later acknowledged before Paul Balta, journalist with Le Monde, : " that Israel, the Shah of Iran and the United States had strongly convinced him to refuse the agreement in the belief that the Kurds would launch a guerrilla warfare to weaken Saddam Hussein whose modernisation plan for Iraq was a serious concern for the United States and their great ally Israel" (4). In an interview with the Washington Post, June 22, 1973, he pledged to serve the US policy in the region and if the US aid was "substantial" "to take control of the Kirkuk oilfields and entrust their exploitation to an US company". According to the 1975 Pike Report of the CIA, he was prepared to register Kurdistan as the 51the State of the United States!
The DPK split. Obeidallah Barzani, "sell out" for his father was tempted by the autonomy experience as negotiated and was therefore made minister of State in April 1974. Several members of the DPK politburo set up a rival party in Baghdad and until April 2003, the question of the Kurdistan borders lie dormant.
The Kurdish insurgency held its ground up to the Algiers Agreement signed by Saddam Hussein and the Shah whereby they secretly agreed to stop supporting their respective opposition groups. Within a short period, the Kurdish guerrilla collapsed. Mustapha Barzani died of a cancer in the US where he has taken up residence with his son.
De facto independence
With the outbreak of the First Gulf War (1980-1988) so called Iraq-Iran War, the insurgency was afresh but the repression is horrendous. With the Anfal operation of Ali Hass Al Majidi, a security zone is secured along the borders: villages are destroyed and their population displaced and regrouped. Every encroachment of the Iranian army is met with combat gas by each waring side like at the very controversial battle of Hallabja. All through, the regional government based in Arbil kept on his normal activities.
After the cease-fire signed by Iran on July 18th, 1988, the lull was short-lived. Iraqi divisions entered Koweit in August 1990, and this led to the Second Gulf War and to the setting up in April 1991 of an illegitimate free-zone north of the 36th parallel. Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani were free to do as they pleased for the next 13 years.
The unacceptable borders of the Iraqi "Great Kurdistan"
To-day, Barzani’s son, is the President of the Autonomous Region and Jala Talabani , the "President of the Republic". They have for a while kept their squabbling down and have annexed lands outside the Autonomous Region. They do not have to fear the Iraqi army, dismantled by Paul Bremer and they forbid any military force made up of Arabs to enter the region under their grip. Their militias, trained, armed and supported by the Americans and the Israelis are ready to seize by force Kirkuk, the Sindjar and Qanaqin.
The map as submitted to the National Assembly in July 2005 by Mullah Bakhtiyar, member of the PUK (Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) comprises the whole governorate of Nineveh, that is to say Mossul, Tell Afar (5% of Kurds, 75% of Turkmen), the Sindjar (Yezidi) and a large portion of the Djezire plateau, Kirkuk and Tuz Kurmatu –the whole of the Turkmeneli, Turkmen country- then it cuts across Baqubah, moves around Baghdad, fifteen kms north, then down to the south-east to Jassan and Badra on the border with Iran. The mountain range of Hamrin serves as a boundary in the north between Arabs and Kurds. This seems to be not enough for some Kurdish fundamentalists who argue that Salah Eddine (Saladin) being born in Tikrit (south of Hamrin) means that the town was Kurdish.
The drawing of Kurdistan based on "historical and geographical facts" according to Bakhtiyar was approved by the Kurdish Parliament. The Kurdish people, he said, may be willing to discuss privileges or ministerial functions, but the borders of Kurdistan are a line not be crossed. (5). The Kurdish leaders might as well consider that all Kurds living in Iraq outside Kurdistan be under the jurisdiction of the Kurdish State and regarded as privileged citizens as requested by Barzani in his counter-proposal on the autonomous region project.
Jalal Talabani has put forward to the Turkmen an autonomous plan (7)…within the would-be State of Kurdistan but the mistrust is there because lands which would be allotted to them were not mentioned. In the "Great Kurdistan" Project, Yezidis and Shabaks (8) who are neither Kurds nor Arabs in their opinion are being turned into "Kurds". Assyrians are labelled Kurds because they speak the language and the Chaldeans are said to be Arabs, for the opposite reason, as if to mean that the religious schism between them bears ethnical roots.
Barzani and Talabani are asking too much. They should be satisfied with their own territory and embark on long-pending social reforms. Otherwise, they can just expect more riots and violence as in Halabja last March where demonstrators destroyed a shrine.
Who can really believe that Arabs and Turkmen will ratify the policy of fait accompli ? They will not be ripped off their national rights or of their lands. There will be more wars and the American and Israeli 'friends" may not always be prepared to answer the call of the feudal Kurds.
Gilles Munier (10/4/06)
Contact : gilmun@club-internet.fr
Map : Strafor.com (1) Alerte au Kurdistan, by Edouard Sablier – Le Monde, 26/9/61 - (2) Lettre du 18 octobre 1930, source : Foreign Office 371 14 523, Chris Kutschera, Le mouvement national kurde, Flammarion, 1979 - (3) Compte rendu des négociations - Exposé de Saddam Hussein, le 11 mars 1975 – Propos sur les problèmes actuels, Editions Ath-Thawra – Bagdad (sans date) - (4) Le projet politique des Etats-Unis n'est-il pas d'atomiser le Proche-Orient ? Paul Balta interview by Saïd Branine (26/3/03)
http://www.oumma.com/article.php3?id_article=593&var_recherche=paul+balta
(5) Kurdish leaders redrawn map with larger Kurdistan. (6) L’Irak nouveau et le problème kurde, by Aziz El Hadj, Ed. Khayat, 1977 – (7) The New Anatolian (30/1/06) - (8) Iraq’s Shabaks are being opressed by Kurds, by Dr. Hunain Al-Qaddo.
Http://web.krg.org/articles/article_print.asp?ArticleNr=4744
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are the sole responsibility of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Centre for Research on Globalization.
To become a Member of Global Research
The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at www.globalresearch.ca grants permission to cross-post original Global Research articles in their entirety, or any portions thereof, on community internet sites, as long as the text & title are not modified. The source must be acknowledged and an active URL hyperlink address to the original CRG article must be indicated. The author's copyright note must be displayed. For publication of Global Research articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: crgeditor@yahoo.com
www.globalresearch.ca contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available to our readers under the provisions of "fair use" in an effort to advance a better understanding of political, economic and social issues. The material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes. If you wish to use copyrighted material for purposes other than "fair use" you must request permission from the copyright owner.
To express your opinion on this article, join the discussion at Global Research's News and Discussion Forum
For media inquiries: crgeditor@yahoo.com
© Copyright Gilles Munier, uruknet.info, 2006
The url address of this article is: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MUN20060422&articleId=2320
Privacy Policy
© Copyright 2005 GlobalResearch.ca
Web site engine by Polygraphx Multimedia © Copyright 2005
< Message edited by Harry -- 4/23/2006 8:49:06 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 6:18:12 PM
|
|
|
Jaafer
Posts: 71
Score: 0
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline
|
The above article does not only shows the traitorous history of the Iraqi Kurds, but it shows their or at least their leaderships short memory. More or less everybody has used them before and dumped them after they got what they wanted from them. Soon you will fulfil your and their destiny again. If living is so rosy in Northern Iraq, why most of the Kurds who fled AlTalibini and AlBarzani more than Saddam still living outside Iraq? Ensha’ Allah what have you caused by your treason to Iraq happens to you, you rats. Unfortunately it seems the sectarian strife will continue for a while but it will stop sooner or later then be happy. If you can not then, we will make you know what happiness is you slaves. Two days ago in Arbil the Beshmerga has imprisoned 40 Kurds for protesting against what the other slaves and their Ajem, the crusaders and the jews are doing to the resisting mainly Arabs of Iraq. Yesterday one of Ansar AlIslam leader has been imprisoned by again the Beshtarqa in Karkuk. He was a Turkman. So you and everybody know the situation in Iraq is not black and white so is its own population. This is what makes Iraq a great country. No country on the face of the earth with so much diversity and most look at each other as equals and do not mind marrying from each other. No country has been subjected to such a prolonged attack in a failed attempt to bring us down but Ensha Allah like we have shattered the American Century Project at the expense of our people, the sacrifices of our people will not go in vain. We have shown the world through our civilisations and religions that human being are not animals, so those who think those animals are better than them go and join them in their countries, Iraq is not your country. Do not forget to take your jewish masters with you, they will not remain occupying Palestine.
By the way the jews have left or forced to leave Iraq when Palestine became occupied by the jews this was mainly in or after 1948. This was when the British were ruling Iraq. We did not have a national government then. Likewise the Arab league was established by the British to cheat us from our Islam, Unity and Independence. All what you have to do is to read its constitution. You will find that the veto given to any state or “state” is enough to stop any decision from being reached. All what you need is a rotten “Ameir” and that is it. The reality is worst, most of them are traitors and are supported by the criminal crusaders, jews and the freemasons. All or most of the Arabic countries are occupied by the western military bases on them. Iraq was free regardless of what you want to write against President Saddam Hussein and this is why they have destroyed our country. During the last two weeks 4 lecturers have been killed; 3 from the university of Dyala and one from AlBasrah university. Last week 250 Iraqis have been killed in Baghdad. During the last three months, 145 pilots and 450 senior military commanders have been killed all over Iraq. The traitors who are participating in this destruction, we would like to remind you of your history for example as in the above article and/or your stay in your beloved Iran, Britain, America, France, occupied Palestine. More importantly we would like to remind you of our Arab brothers and sisters who are being kept in these small cells called Arabic countries. With the inevitable collapse of the evil system which is ruling these countries, our Arabic brothers and sisters will take our revenge even if you just dreamed of the Iraqi division and demise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 6:20:44 PM
|
|
|
Harry
Posts: 463
Score: 11
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: California
Status: offline
|
Could you edit your post, so it does not take as much space on the page?
Please try and remove the spaces. Let's help keep it clean and simple.
if you are unable to do that, let me know, I will do it for you.
< Message edited by Harry -- 4/24/2006 12:10:50 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/22/2006 7:22:59 PM
|
|
|
Jaafer
Posts: 71
Score: 0
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline
|
Dear Harry I tried to do it on word and it seemed all right but it returned to what it was when posting it here. Please do remove the spaces if you can. Many thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/23/2006 6:51:02 AM
|
|
|
ariannationkurdistan
Posts: 37
Score: -1
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
|
jaafer
you all are fascists or even racistic
i hate the way you think and i know from everybody of you that you would not stop to kill women and children to reach your goal
like your moqama and ansar al **** sunna
what do you thnik,
the peshmerga etc. are there to protect the people and they do and they have caught every terrorist, no matter he is kurdish islamist terrorist , turkmen killer or an arab bombmaker ,
for crimes against humanity and major braches of the rules of war
most of the kurd did not fled barzani or talabani , but sadam hussein and your ill minded wrong arab policy
what do you want to say
everybody else is responsable but not we iraqi arabs
all this people were either killed by your beloved moqama or the badr corps and not by a group of jews or a zionist conspiracy or kurds
wake up and have a realty check
this war is destroying you
i have predicted it because i always said that arab nationalism is wrong , because it is based on false conditioons
, conditions not met in reality
you do not tell me what my country is or not
i am as much iraqi as you , we all are iraqis
you do not have the right to say who is iraqi and what iraqis want , only because , your ideas are based on a wrong assumptoon , that everybody who think at way or has that ethnicity and belief is a real iraqi and the rest not
again , you show that your concept of iraqism is only an excuse to have sunni arab domination over all other iraqis
all you do show is that your are ready to commit mass killings not more
and jaafer , they may all have used kurds ,becaussre we trusted them but look what happened , kasam toppled
, sadam toppled , the shah toopled and barzani the presodent of kurdistan and jalal , the presodent of iraq
The map as submitted to the National Assembly in July 2005 by Mullah Bakhtiyar, member of the PUK (Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) comprises the whole governorate of Nineveh, that is to say Mossul, Tell Afar (5% of Kurds, 75% of Turkmen), the Sindjar (Yezidi) and a large portion of the Djezire plateau, Kirkuk and Tuz Kurmatu –the whole of the Turkmeneli, Turkmen country- then it cuts across Baqubah, moves around Baghdad, fifteen kms north, then down to the south-east to Jassan and Badra on the border with Iran. The mountain range of Hamrin serves as a boundary in the north between Arabs and Kurds. This seems to be not enough for some Kurdish fundamentalists who argue that Salah Eddine (Saladin) being born in Tikrit (south of Hamrin) means that the town was Kurdish.
yezidi are kurds , fayli are kurds and shabaks too
there is no turkmen country , where are the towns and cities of turkmeneli , tell me jaafer which town are turkmen
tel affar and altun kopru , that is all, thre is not another town in iraq with a turkmen majority , end of discussion
badra has a kurdish majority , jasam too, sinjar too, arbil, kerkuk, tuz , and the djebel sinjar and djebel sinjar are the frontiers between kurdish majority areas and arab majority or do you want to deny even this fact
i am not a idiot ,
just drive the road from baghhdad to kerkuk , until you reach djebel hamrin, the town sre all arab and you feel it too, but then , the djebel hamrin and after it the first kurdish settlements starts until you reach tuz khurmatu and above tuz , they are narly all kurdish villages
this map does not include alluntil 15 kilometers north of baghdad , nor baqubah
and i tell you something , you all not should undersestimate
thissis our will to create a free and democratic society
riots are not bad as long the governments take lessons from it and everybody of you , no matter how racist sand facist he is, should know, that the kurdish government has implemented new laws , freed the journalist because of the pressure and looks at the social feelin of the people
ladt week, the government has given lland to anfal victims ,
the kurdish government cannot and will not fight the will of the nation, because they have no means to do it and
all this, will not forget us , what the real matter is
the social problrms in kurdistan are small and mainly because the the moqame is deesroying the infrastructure like water pumpstatioon and electric lines , which provide the kurdish with water and power but it will change soon
new power stations are built , new raffineries too
until dezember 2007 , arbil will have two new huge power station , capable of providing the city with power
new raffineries are being built south of slemani and they will buy more and more from turkey and syria
and then you will see that a lot of the problem will go and do not forget the kerkuk referendum, because then we will control the kerkuk raffinery , which is much more important then the oil,
we will push out people like you, settled by sadam and then we will secure it and provide kurdistan with gazoline for all time
< Message edited by ariannationkurdistan -- 4/23/2006 7:27:21 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/23/2006 7:03:36 AM
|
|
|
Kurdish_Separation
Posts: 7
Score: -1
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
|
There's Gilles Munier, ...In more recent times Gilles Munier found new fields in which to exercise his talents. He discovered the Iraqi Revolution! When a radio interviewer had the temerity to suggest to Munier that Saddam Hussein had established an inhuman dictatorship, the latter replied:
"You cannot respond with our Western criteria. Iraq has never known democracy. You cannot judge in the same way a foreign people emerging from colonisation. The Ba'th regime of Saddam Hussein is revolutionary. That implies sacrifices. Saddam symbolises the Iraqi resistance. If the embargo had been lifted, democracy would have had a real chance in Iraq."
But at least Munier has never denied that the French-Iraqi Friendship Society which he set up received money from the Iraqi government: He said he and his organisation introduced numerous businesses, oil and otherwise, to contacts in Iraq but that it was all perfectly legal. For each successful introduction he received a commission.
Not all your co-signatories are as frank on such matters.
Like your friend Galloway, Gilles Munier seems to be spending quite a bit of time in Syria nowadays. Galloway told the Syrians how lucky they are to be ruled by a Baathist dictator: "I was very impressed by the PresidentÂ’s sharpness, by his flexible mind.
Jaafer, the first thing to think about when posting something is, does what i am posting have any credability?
Munnier clearly has none, he was investigated and convicted for the theft of oil for food money, he like George Galloway id a supporter of saddam hussein as he says himself.
Is this the type of person you look up to? by refering to him you clearly agree with his comments, do you agree with him??
tut tut, shame on you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/23/2006 8:31:00 AM
|
|
|
baghdadi
Posts: 41
Score: 0
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline
|
Unforentlty many of the Kurds here are only interested in 1 thing that is break up Iraq and become independent. And Kurds think they will benefit, they will only have more enemies
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/23/2006 9:08:03 AM
|
|
|
Kurdish_Separation
Posts: 7
Score: -1
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
|
Whatever you views are on Kurds and Kurdistan, posting something written by a self proclaimed ba'athi will not do your argument any credit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: is iraq losing his arabic caracter - 4/24/2006 1:53:18 AM
|
< | | | | |
Main Page
Log In
Register
Printable Version
