mmmmm---- let’s see, Al-Qaida terrorists (mostly, from Syria, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Algeria, etc. none from Iraq.) demolish the trade center in New York, train American morons to commit similar acts against their own people, Blowup train and subway stations in most of Europe. Syria and Iran build nuclear reactors from mostly Chinese and Russian supplies and, your so-called, president decides to invade a country which has no ties to Al-Qaida whatsoever, clamming that it is producing weapons of mass destruction.
Then, when it’s all out in the open, and no WMDs found, the subject becomes supporting Palestinian terrorists, when that theory bites the dust, the subject matter changes again, this time to fighting world terrorism.
While all along the entire world (with the exception of Americans of course) knew that invading Iraq will make matters even worse. Bush and his hard headed goons, ignored the knowhow of the entire world, and went ahead with their devilish plan (supported by Israel, which kept preaching that “Iraq is the real enemy”) in creating a blood bath in a country which has done no harm to America, instead of concentrating on combating the core of the world terrorism, namely Al-Qaida and the Taliban troops, who are finding refuge in a country plagued with narcotics.
However, my words will never be able to give you a satisfactory answer. The best way to get an answer for your inquiry, I suggest you get a one way plane pass, (Trust me; you do not need to spend extra money for a round trip ticket.) to Iraq, and ask the people who, for the past six years, are as confused about their daily lives as the world is today about the way the economy is headed.
_____________________________
Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.
i just want to know what iraqis feel about america being there?
Nobody likes foreign soldiers on their soil. Normal Americans could have been welcomed in Iraq but due to the amount of damage that the U.S has done to Iraq throughout the past six decades as compared to what Iraq has done to the U.S during the same time (which is close to no damage), which more then often has been supported by U.S citizen and still is to a certain degree, I would simply put it in a way like this; Iraq's ground was sacred and clean once before but the moment Americans arrived the ground got all black.
If it was possible (and I really wish) Iraq should have banned Americans, that would come with any reasons, from entering the country. Not a single one should have been allowed to enter the country however the problem is that:
1. They would force themselves still in anyway. One of the things that parts of the Western world are best at is to force themselves in another country to take advantage of it and f***** it up in the process.
2. This would affect Iraqis in the U.S.
< Message edited by Dreadnought -- 10/30/2009 12:32:47 PM >
Can you say how you think things would have played out if the US had not gone to Iraq? How do you suppose that things would have occurred?
I am in part curious about what relations between Iraq and Iran would be like absent western involvement. I think that the worst loss for humanity is that the nations that could lead the region - Iran and Iraq, are not in good position or of a mind to provide beneficial leadership. What I don't know is whether either power could rise to the occasion.
I have had occasion to track my family history way way back {through the Romans I find I have Persian blood in extremely minute amounts! though I am Russian by patriarchy}. Beside who was born and died when, the story is one of constant conflict - family against family, country against country, tribe against tribe, husband against wife, brother against brother. If there is not a great international war going on, then tribal conflict rises to take its place, resting only when intra-family bloodshed causes it pause.
I think that historians do not write much about times of peace, but I also think that there has never been much peace to write about.
I am in a course on evolution and have recently been studying the evolution of Humans. Across Eurasia, the Neanderthals dominated. The Cro-Magnon migrated in and there is evidence that the two were in adjacent places for a while. There were two other species of Homo. sp comingled. While the four species had some opportunity to interbreed they did not. After about 10,000 years of coexistence, the species other than Cro-Magnon became extinct and Homo sapiens arose from the Cro-Magnon whether by warfare or capture of resources and displacement is unknown {oversimplified but I am not writing a dissertation}. I think that conflict is the basic nature of human interaction, not cooperation. But it is via cooperation of individuals that Homo sapiens dominated, expanded, and drove the other Homo sp. to extinction either by warfare or domination.
So the paradox is that we compete and are in conflict, but that the winner at the end of the day is not the smartest or most able, but the ones who by cooperation build something larger than themselves.
If we build our hopes and dreams assuming a peaceful existence, then we are certain to be disappointed. If we fail to recognize that cooperation comes from mutual need and crisis {look at the international cooperation in fighting swine flu} we will fail to cooperate and thus find ourselves at disadvantage to those who do cooperate.
I have learned much in this forum and appreciate your tolerance of my presence and perhaps my sometimes naive view of things. But I do not yet see the elements in Iraq that allow a vision of greatness to be formed, a vision which allows Iraqis to collect themselves together and rise to the greatness the are capable of.
Humanity expected and expects great things of Iraq and Iran. It is more than expectation - we need your contribution. That's also not optional - all of our survival depends on it. It was also not possible under Sadaam. I don't like that we invaded Iraq but what else could have happened? Perhaps my naiveté is in the way, but who else was at the door knocking and saying "Not acceptable"? Who else pointed to a way, any way to a better future? These are sincere questions, not debating points - I don't know the answer and wish I could see the alternative.
Democracy is a truly inefficient and corrupt means of government, it is also one of the best forms of government that we have. So it is with war - what an imperfect tool with such large unintended consequences. But is there another way? What is it? Forstier
If I’m correct, one of the main reasons for the US forces invading Iraq was to rid Iraq and Iraqis of Saddam, and his régime; so, let’s see what the American forces accomplished since Bush felt a woody about Iraq.
Saddam has been executed after a speedy trial. (One down). His two sons were killed in a face off. (Two down). The rest of his family members are still in Jordan enjoying their loot of what Iraqis spilled their blood for, and cost them their sons’ lives, their daughters becoming rape victims, and the honor of their families. (This one gets my blood boiling).
They drove Al-Qaida into Iraq to combat the invaders, which in turn drove Iran in, to take advantage of the situation and fight its war against the Sunni population there, which caused the Syrian and Saudi governments to secretly send its fighters into Iraq to fight the Shi’as of Iraq who are now collaborating with the Iranian border crossers.
This means that the US drove a huge wedge between the two largest populations of Iraq, who in the past lived in peace for (in Iraq) for close to century. I’m not even going to mention the sensitivity between Muslims and the rest of the minority groups who have roots in the land between the two rivers. (Armenians are not a part of that; they just fled the Turkish bloodshed, to find a kind and helping hands among Iraqi Arabs and Muslims, Sunnis and Shi’as alike).
Now the main point: Saddam could have been plucked and gotten rid of without the six years (coming to its seventh) of bloodbath; if only the US, led by daddy’s boy, gung-ho-ing into a war that the rest of the world looked at as “unjust and unnecessary”; despite the gruesome picture the US drew of Iraq’s involvements and endeavors. Which the entire world saw right through the lies and deception games the US played at the UN.
There was nothing about Iranian involvement in the internal affairs of Iraq before Saddam’s tyranny. It was his régime that started the sensitivity between Iraq “a Sunni state” and Iran “a Shi’a state”, and here came the US only to play a more positive roll in strengthening the separation of the two sectors, by spreading it among the population of Iraq; the one disease that Iraqi Muslims fought for generations only to get injected into their blood by Americans. Do you really think that Iraq is on its way to better future? How can you provide people with a better future, when you start by crushing them to almost nothingness? How can people understand the meaning of peace when you show up with huge guns and fill their starry skies with fiery rain of bombs? How can you expect a nation to accept you, as a savior, when your first step was to deprive them from their daily bread?
Peace never dripped nor spread through a gun barrel, peace was never achieved by marching hundreds of thousands of troops with tanks, missiles, air raids, machineguns, and trigger happy solders. Peace only comes through face to face talks and cooperation. The US not only destroyed Iraq, its economy, its way of life; but it also spread chaos through the whole world, just to satisfy one morons desire.
Great things can happen, only if governments start to care for its people not at the expense of other nation’s existence. Great things can be achieved, only if nations begin to understand that they are not the world. Great things are possible, if only people respect one another’s beliefs, way of life, right to exist, and work together towards great common goals, instead of trying their best to rise above everyone else by stepping on everyone else; after all, there is no one human’s dream of happiness that is any different than the person next to him or the one thousands of miles away.
It is too late to think of another way, we had our chance to make things better and we lost it, we had the chance to prove to the world that we are an intelligent and caring nation, instead we showed them that we are nothing but a nation of evil, a nation of war mongers, a nation of blood thirsty vampires who wants to squeeze the world out of its riches and fill our bellies with them. .
_____________________________
Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.
Thank goodness you are alive - I was worried aftr the silence of posts!!
So, we don't give up, but what do we do?
The seeds of greatness cannot be extinguished by by evil or by compulsion, but only by being relinquished. I do not know much of you, but you in particular, and most of the people who post, do not seem the sort to relinquish anything of value.
We seem to be in such new territory that little of experience elsewhere would seem relevant.
But this, I think is House by house, block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, people must attend to their family, friends and neighbors. Until there is a base that provides the power to drive a nation, the nation would not seem to have the essentials to do what it must.
What gets heard in the US is that the government is being used to capture power and money. What I don't hear is a passion for building the vision. {And I know the news only reports blood and gore, not nation building}. Maybe it's underway.
I think I have been listening for at least 18 months here, and I have only heard one proposal about a month ago that I could sink my teeth in to. If it seems like I push, prod and antagonize it's because I hear all too clearly what the problem is but I ncannot for the life of me see what I can do, or what others are doing to get Iraq to its rightful place.
I don't. It's friday and that probably shapes my thoughts as much as logic does.
Best wishes for your happiness, your clarity of vision, your power to act, your courage in enduring.
No doubt this is all about Israel. The shame is your country isn't inhabitable anymore. You stay there and you will have millions of deformed babies. If you want baby you must leave that country. Soon Iran will be invaded. It makes me cry as an American. I say to the Iraqi people it's not the couch potato Whites who are doing this. It's the Jews. Jewish head should meet metal pipe. I say forgive us Iraqi people. Those are the same ****s that murdered 65 milion Eastern Euroepans.
The USA is so screwed up with all the brown people. One third of America is brown. I have seen photos of the sick children. Leaving the depleted uranium there to kill you for 500 years. Maybe you can take the soil there and send it to Israel.
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