Just had one disturbing news from Iraq. I had a long conversation on the phone with a friend in Jordan.
All churches in Mosul have been burnt, over 150 families were forced out of their homes, and many have been killed or missing. The fear of this continuing elsewhere in the country is very high, and it’s already began in Karkuk, and other cities.
Christians in Iraq fought side by side with the Muslims to liberate Iraq, they fought in 67 & 73 war with Israel, and they also fought and died with the 8 years war with Iran. They died in every battle Iraq ever had. They were there 500 years before Islam, that’s their own land, Iraq is their country, and they were trusted to hold very sensitive positions in governments and businesses. 99% of them kept out of politics, except for those who were forced into it, simply a game of survival.
Many of them disagreed with the invasion, I even made my council here to issue a statement opposing it, but it fell on deaf ears.
Can someone tell me what the hell is going on? Why the minorities have been targeted? What do they gain by killing the Christian? And why the government and their Kurdish president are doing nothing?
IRBIL, Oct 10 (KUNA) -- Four Iraqi christians were killed in two separate attacks in Mosul on Friday in what was seen as escalation against christians in the northern Iraqi city forcing many of them to leave their houses, a police source said. Four Iraqi unarmed christians were killed in two armed attacks, the source told KUNA, as part of attacked launched by militants against Iraqi christians. Gunmen riding a car killed two christians in Al-Wehda neighborhood, norhtern Mosul, on day light and infront of other people, he said. Other militants also killed another two Iraqi christians in eastern Mosul, added the source. No one claimed responsibility for the attack. Louis Sako, the archbishop of Kirkuk, regretted the fact that christian citizens were pursued, threatened and killed. He said in a statement these actions threatened "our national unity which we seek to build specially that our country is under occupation." Meanwhile, the department of immigration and immigrants in Nineveh, said it was following displacement of christian families to nearby towns. The department formed a cell that would count the number of displaced families and their locations, and give them basic living needs. Around 800,000 Iraqi christians used to live in Baghdad, Mosul and Kirkuk before the 2003 US-led war to liberate Iraq, but violence targetting christians forced around 250,000 of them to relocate inside Iraq or leave the country. (end) sbr.bs KUNA 102055 Oct 08NNNN
< Message edited by Calm -- 10/10/2008 9:05:39 PM >
That is very sad news, but please remember Iraq is the land of Iraqis, and whether your ancestors where Assyrians there 3,000 years ago, or Arabs who migrated from the Arabian Peninsula as recently as 200 years ago, you all have equal rights to the land. And besides which, Arab Muslims are the majority and by far contributed the most to building the country, so it is equally our land if not more so.
For that shamefull campaign, I blame the lawlessness propogated by Iraq's corrupt government, and being also Christians like the majority of Americans, and culturally much more Westernised, Christian Iraqis make an easy target to ignorant hate-filled criminals. If it weren't for militias, terrorists and angry armedresidents guarding the Mosques, each one will also be destroyed in Iraq, but being a very small minority, Christians are unfortunately powerless to do that.
Again, I'd like to point out the scum who are burning churches are the Iraqi equivalent of the BNP here in the UK, or Rednecks in the US. I am certain that if in the UK the government completely fails to uphold the rule of law, with horrendously incompetent law enforcement and state-wide corruption reaching to the top, like with Iraq. Also if the country was awash with very cheap military-grade firearms, I am sure the BNP will burn every single Mosque in the UK, and murder or evict all non-Christians. I am sure even Christian Iraqis like you will be evicted or killed for not being of European race. So again, the problem for that lies with the government, not the people.
However, what disappoints me is that religion still devides our people, and I am very saddened that Christian Iraqis on this site keep starting these topic about burning some dumb churches, or forcing some Christians out of the country. Many more Iraqis of all (or no) religions are being killed every day, yet Sunni just cries for burnt Sunni mosque, Shia keep crying for burnt Shia Mosque, and Christians keep crying for burnt Church. **** all the Churches and Mosques and Shrines, thousands have been, and still are, dying every month, yet we ignore them for being not "our people".
And I also disagree the Christians are any more innocent or peacefull than the Muslims - all Iraqis are equally guilty of not having unity, and equally innocent in not deserving to die like they are.
My final words in this very long post is don't ever expect to achieve anything by just being sad and posting about the atrocities committed against ypour own people. All other sects and religions will just think you care nothing about them, and start just working for their people, and thus propogating this sectarian mentality. Our only hope is to work together to raise awareness of atrocities committed against all Iraqi people, and condemning our traitorous government who sold us out for extremism.
In other words what you are saying, f... all the Christians, because the americans are christians, it happened to muslims too, so I got to accept it and shut up.
We lived peacefully for centuries with everyone, we kept ourselves to ourselves, we were there 500 years before Islam, whether you are majority, the Iraqi land is as ours as it is yours, But, the muslims choose to kill each other over something happened hundred of years ago, with it, they killed and killed and distroyed our country. We started no war against no one, what the americans and the British did, they did not do it in the name of religion, but in the name of their country, saving the world from terror. And I am not defending them, in fact, I want them to get out, and let the Iraqis kill each other, its the only way they know to to resolve their problems. They have been doing it for years and years, and its getting us nowhere.
We Iraqis have built so much hatered inside us, that we stopped seeing whats right and whats wrong. And if its okay for muslims to be killed, than for me it isn't okay for the Christians.
< Message edited by Calm -- 10/11/2008 11:01:24 AM >
No, that is not what I said my dear friend. I was saying that Iraq is as much our land as it is yours - and our ancestors where also Christian or pagans, but converted to Islam when it reached Iraq, so I don't see your point. If you are refering to the Assyrians, they are a tiny minority who contribute next to nothing from "keeping themselves to themselves" to such extremes, so it is Arab muslim land as much as Christian or Assyrian land.
Second is the Americans only say they do it for politics since they have good media and PR skills. The many terrorist organisations do not have that, so just choose Islam as there cover. You really believe that the Quran tells people to do what the terrorists are doing, or that what America is doing is going to save the world from terrorism? That is all BS, as they are all liers using covers to fool people. I am really sick and tired with this BS coming about them doing it in the name of Islam, and Bush not doing it in the name of Christianity. It makes no difference. I am sure Bush sold it off as being for Christianity to Southern US states, and I saw a Bin Laden speech where he explains it is merely political.
Both liers, both killers and both represent no-one. It as as absurd linking Muslims with the Iraq violence as it is linking Christian with Bush. If I had time, for everytime one of you links Muslims with Iraq violence, I will link Christian with Bush just to proove my point. But now I have university and a girl I'm trying to impress, so I really don't have time for that. I will happily leave this site to rott as a medium for ignorant, radical, bitter and above all pathetic Iraqi Christian views if this continues. I don't want another cestpit like we had with Harry.
And Muslims don't want to kill one another anymore than Christians in Northern Ireland - again the muslim minority there suffered. But there was more rule of law, and if it was left like Iraq, Northern Ireland would have become much worse.
You are a very smart and wise person Calm, and I greatly respect you for that, and hope I don't need to explain any further - I also have no time. Please don't give into the extremism, ignorance and blindnss hate brings.
It is a political situation, and religion, race and identity are being used as tools as always.
I have read the Quran cover to cover, its a beautiful most amazing book I ever read. And I've read the bible, and about another half a dozen different holy books, different religions, and not a single relgion I came across allow any type of killing. I never pointed the finger at the religion, but all those (head cases) who used religion as a tool to kill.
Thank you very much Calm, I guess that was just a misunderstanding on my part, so appologies for assuming you said you blame all Islam.
Like you, I am also very angry and tired of all those head-case psychopaths using religion to justify genocide and cultural destruction. I's also like to add that those terrorists do not just want to destroy Christianity and it's great and beautifull culture in Iraq. They also want to destroy Arab Iraqi Muslim culture. That is why the tribes in the West of Iraq in Anbar have turned against Al Qaeda - even though they are all Sunni - because they wanted to destroy Iraqi culture and kill our people, setting up their culture of thieves, perverts and murderers like they did in Afghanistan before.
What we need to all realise is those terrorists are not the enemies of Iraqi Christians or Iraqi Shia or Sunni, Sooba/Mandeans, Kurds or Arabs. They are the enemies of ALL Iraq, and they belong to none of our groups.
We must understand people lie sometimes, and only because they are President or Ayatollah - it does not mean they NEVER lie - if anything those people are the biggest liers, and we must question everything they say.
If us Iraqis want to survive, and still have an identity, we must all work together to condemn those people, and anyone who does harm to Iraq. Sunni, Shia, Christian, Mandean, Athiest, Arab, Kurd, Assyrian, Kurd - we must all work together to condemn those terrorist groups and ther masters in Iran and the Iraqi government. And I pray one day we can all have a peacefull country, and be united like brothers like before.
Take care my dear friend, and thank you very much for your reply.
I SUPPORT U.S.-funded Sunni fighters. What ever it takes to kill off these raticals. Heck, I'm for making the entire area a glass pond, parking lot and putting up a Wendys & Pizza Hut!
I SUPPORT U.S.-funded Sunni fighters. What ever it takes to kill off these raticals. Heck, I'm for making the entire area a glass pond, parking lot and putting up a Wendys & Pizza Hut!
My friend, please don't get me started about the Sunni-Awakeneing. I also totally support them, and would like to see more such groups (hopefully Shia too) to counter-act the Iranian-puppet Iraqi government. They dismantled them for two reasons. 1) To keep the country destabilised, so their Iranian masters are happy undermining the Americans, and 2) To keep the negative Sunni image by destroying those great examples of how Sunnis like Iraq and hate Al Qaeda terrorists. That way they have an excuse to oppress the sunnis, and keep the Shia voting for extremist Shia politicians out of fear of negotiating the situation with the "terrorist Sunnis".
I am so completely disappointed with the Americans just letting them do that with virtually no resistance. I think it is a pathetic and feeble attempt to win back their once allied Iraqi government, who betrayed them and switched to Iran. You don't negotiate with terrorists - but how can you negotiate and kiss the asses of people who betrayed you?
The US should bring to light the incriminating evidence of the Iraqi government (I'm sure the CIA got warehouses full), and dissolve Maliki's government on grounds of corruption and failing the Iraqi people to provide security. Then hang them all for treason with Iran.
Then proceed to an areal campaign against Iran, like with Serbia in the 90's. Everytime we find they are supplying weapons, terrorists fighters and training traterous swines - we burn an Iranian city to the ground. Let those extremist racist "Persian" Nationalist Jahaal G'haab take over - this will then we cut all Arab-Iranian ties. Hizbollah in Lebanon and all other sadistic killers Iran's using to spread influence in the Middle-East and Islamic world will be groundless. They will no longer have the cover of Islam to fool anyone - we will all see the true Iranians - our enemies now just like they were 2,000 years ago.
Then, even if all the Iraqis vote and cause a landslide Shia party victory, they will be influenced by, and represent the agenda of Iraqi Shia - not Iranians.
As I see it, that's the only solution for Iraq. But thanks to the US's foolish response to that Russia-Georgia conflict, which majorly distanced Russia and cut so many ties, attacking Iran will undoubtidly cause WW3. But hey, WW1 was caused after the Germans wanted to build a railway line to Baghdad which needed to go through Yugoslavia - stirring **** up in the Balkans, and the assassination of Arch-Duke Franz Ferdinand. WW2 was cause because of unsolved issues from WW1, which in turn was caused by the desire to spread influence into Iraq. So it's not too shabby and unexpected if WW3 was also started because of the ame reason.
Oh, and Pizza Hut is awsome. When I went to Iraq a few years ago, there was a restaurant called "Pizza Hot" on Palestine Street. But it's merchandise, food and service is exactly the same as that of normal Pizza Huts. Oh, and they make very nice Pizzas, so I'm for Iraqi Pizza Huts too. Instead of making spaghetti like they do in the West, they can make Bamya (Iraqi sauce made of Okra and tomatoes, served with rice) and Dolma (Vine leaves stuffed with rice and minced meat sauce).
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