I mean no disrespect to anyone, but, I can't really see what's so sad.
I personally find the horrifying known deaths of over 50-60 Iraqis a day (over 100 a few months ago), and the unknown deaths of only God knows how much, after sickening and unimaginable torture, by terrorist and military groups in the war just south of the border from them in Turkey, much more saddening.
< Message edited by NeoBabylonian -- 6/1/2008 1:52:57 PM >
Well, I do not know what the Imam is saying, because I cannot understand the language. But from what I know of Shiism it has all of the appearances that I am aware of almost of Catholic. Venerating saints, shrines, breast beating etc. This to me is associating partners with Allah subana wa t'ala. As a sunni I worship Allah and state that Muhammed (sas) is his prophet. It does not have to be much more complex than that. N.U.A.
I find the idea of all latmiyat to be distasteful but thats just my personal opinion. The funny part of this particular video is that the Imam is conducting this Latmiya in an American-English accent which tickled me. At first I thought it was a parody but evidently it is not!
As Neo said, whats the point in mourning an event that took place so long ago when so much death and tragedy is taking place in present day Iraq? its beyond my comprehension.
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"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others" - Nelson Mandela
Welcome to this forum, I haven't seen your name here before. One small advice my friend, before you accuse any religion of any wrong or right doings, make sure you have the facts correct. As a Catholic, and I am almost 55 yrs of age, I never seen anyone "But from what I know of Shiism it has all of the appearances that I am aware of almost of Catholic. Venerating saints, shrines, breast beating etc."
I will not ask you for an apology, but gets your facts straight. Many thanks.
In fact there are certain sects of catholism that do indeed have their version of latmiyat. In mexico, the Philipines and other South American and Asian countries the do self flagilate much in the same way the Shia do. Check these links:
I take what I said back, I never ever seen anything like this before, having said that its only in one or two countries, where they have taken the faith far too far. I don't agree with it, I don't like to see it, I think its shameful for Catholism, and against all religious teachings.
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I am not defending anyone here, but the two rituals have completely different reasoning. The act of (لطميه) is showing that the Shi’as are devastated by the act of killing their own prophet, and they are punishing themselves for being so foolish for committing such an act. Those people are repenting a crime that happened over a century and a half ago. While what the Catholics are doing is accepting and feeling the pain, the whipping, and the lashing (symbolizing the punishment that sinners would face) that the Christ had to go through, to save humanity of its sins. Those people are pledging their full belief in what the Christ stood for. The act might look similar, yet the reasoning behind it is completely different.
Harry Thanks for the clarification bro. In my case I find both types of self flagellation to be distasteful. I'm inclined to believe there are far more constructive ways to prove faith or belief than wiping ones self into a bloody pulp. When my uncle died in 2004 we had to visit Karballa and Najaf as part of the burial ceremony and when we reached the great Najaf graveyard there was a massive Latmiya for Sadr's father taking place. All the bodyguards were dressed in black and looking menacing. The whole show was intimidating and our precession was prevented from burying my dear uncle for 2 hours while the latmiya was in progress. I'll never forget it because it was a boiling hot day and my uncle, may he rest in peace, was in his coffin on top of our car with the sun beating down in the stifling 50 degree heat. None of us could leave our cars during this time and the Mehdi Army ****s had no sympathy for our predicament. I don't want to go into the details because it upsets me even to this day but I'm sure you can imagine the scene. GRHS, Amu Tariq I'll never forget you.
Calm Thanks for posting the link. Very interesting clip.
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"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others" - Nelson Mandela
I'm no religious expert, nor take an interest in worshipping something I cannot see - I prefer these false idols I can see. Just kidding. But Shia Muslims, like all Muslims rever Prophet Muhammed, as well as Prophet Abraham, Jesus, Moses and like over 100 others. In La6mia, they are saddened because they killed Hussain, whose the Prophet's Grandson - not another prophet as Muhammed is the last one in Islam. They are doing it also perhaps as acceptance of pain that the Hussain had to go through to bring Islam to Iraq, and I'm sure there might be a significant motive of guilt for the Catholics. It is according to our sins that Jesus suffered and died on the cross according to Christianity (what I was taught in the Catholic school I went to at least).
I agree with Calm on that it is taking religion to the extreme, whether it Christianity or Islam, when harming oneself. In my personal opinion, I believe consciencly and purposely harming yourself for any reason is undignified and utterly wrong.
However, the problem lies with where to draw the line. Is eating something high-fat, high salt or high sugar for the sake of enjoying it's taste, while knowing the risk factors it preset to your health equally immoral, especially as much more people die and suffer from diseases caused by such bad diets than from whipping your back till it bleeds.
I really don't know, but I say since they are doing it to themselves in both cases, and we'll cause so much more trouble than prevent by making it illegal etc... , I say let them all do what they want and whip/hit/cry themselves silly where-ever they are, as long as they don't whip/hit me or make me cry!
I agree with Calm on that it is taking religion to the extreme, whether it Christianity or Islam, when harming oneself. In my personal opinion, I believe consciencly and purposely harming yourself for any reason is undignified and utterly wrong.
I agree. And these self flagellators seems to me to be doing it all for show.
quote:
I say let them all do what they want and whip/hit/cry themselves silly where-ever they are, as long as they don't whip/hit me or make me cry!
A bit of SMS never hurt anyone, right Neo!
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"As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others" - Nelson Mandela
I'm glad I'm not the only one to make the Catholic-shia connection. They seem so predispoded to putting on a show. Of course I know catholics are different everywhere. New Engaland catholics, for example seem more predisposed to avoiding any flashy show of their religion, just the face ceremonies then get the hell out of church. I'm sure Shias vary the same.
Watching that stuff just makes me want to vomit, I thought the point of Christianity was that Christ went through that so that we wouldn't have to. Go figure.
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