Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (Full Version)

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Lion of Babylon -> Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/14/2008 2:34:06 AM)

As a nationalist I of course would much prefer that our natural resources be controlled by a centralised body and oil wealth to be shared by all Iraqis equally. I have been extremely pissed of with the Kurdish governments decision to fly solo despite their insistance on playing an active political role in the rest of the country's future. Finally some positive action to curtail their pipedream of utilising Iraq’s oil reserves for their own egocentric interests. I read yesterday that Iraqi legal representatives issued a declaration on Sunday opposing the Kurds signing foreign oil deals and their ambitions in Kirkuk. Although the Kurds have managed to forge tactical alliances with the Shia government these recent assertive acts by the Kurdish government, such as the refusal to fly the Iraqi national flag in the region, their less than cordial treatment of Arabs & Christians in the North of Iraq and the recent oil deals are now being viewed as a threat to national unity by centralised government.

According to various sources the Kurds have signed 15 production-sharing contracts with 20 international oil companies, most of them obscure. These contracts must be considered illegal by the Iraqi Oil Ministry, and they have to follow through by excluding and blacklisting participating international oil companies from future opportunities in other parts of Iraq. The Kurds are still defiant about their right to sign these illegal contracts because according to them no one has the right to annul them. In fact they have stepped up the ante by initiating further negotiations with two Canadian firms for a joint venture to construct an oil refinery and continue work on a second one. The first refinery, in the Bazian area, is scheduled to be completed by 2010 in a joint venture with Canada's Heritage Oil. The second refinery, to be located at the Taq Taq oil field, would be constructed by Genel and Canada's Addax Petroleum and completed by early 2009.

Given the Kurds recent actions yet again proves the point that they have never considered themselves as Iraqi citizens and don’t have Iraq’s national interests at heart then I would like to suggest a solution. Leave them to their own devises. First thing to do is kick them out of government and take away their rights as Iraqis. For example as they support the PKK and allow them to shelter in the Northern Mountains of Iraq then they have to face the consequences. Don't provide them with any Military support. If they continue to plunder national resources without central government approval then treat them as traitors. All first/second class oil companies working or even negotiating with the Kurdish government for the development of Oil refineries in the North should be blacklisted indefinitely and prevented from entering into any contract in the rest of Iraq. Let the Kurds enjoy the dream of self rule but make life difficult for them by applying measures that obstruct their progress and isolate them economically and militarily. I feel confident that such measures will eventually bring them to their knees and they will soon be begging to return to a centralised system run from Baghdad.

What do you think? All comments welcome.



Lion of Babylon -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/14/2008 3:24:54 AM)

Heres a relevant article concerning the above:

[image]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/ap_logo_106.png[/image] Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis criticize Kurds
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq;_ylt=AjrkWFq2YZi9JLnOE88kHt1X6GMA



Iraqi100Percent -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/15/2008 9:52:30 AM)

i like the idea but as we all know Kurds are Kurds and since they were brainwashed with national ideas of their own they never figured a way out and honestly no one cares about their dreams in the reagion and in fact what they had under saddam was as close as they could get to self governance and now the central government is going to look back at history and do what saddam has been trying to do, contain them so they do not inflict as much damage to the whole country.

be sure that saddam's actions in Iraq, except for the kuwait war were actions imposed due to the geopolitical nature of iraq and how to keep a country together living in a secular system which worked well for many year. Now this government is going to head in the same direction cause that the only way to successfully govern such country otherwise you would have to divide it up and it will mean the failure of america and iraqi-americans-british that sold the war and the whole idea to the public and a disaster to the long term dream of US interests in the region.

the kurds now realize that theur dreams can only extend so much and the central government should learn to use this opportunity to pressure them and show them their limits however this government won't be able to use military against the kurds, their military is weaker if the US does not get involved.

The Kurds have burned their cards with the Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis and Turns. The only card they have left is the Israeli card but that goes only so far when US is in the region and in charge.

The kurdish populaton and nationalists which have been very quiet on this website will either shut up and put up or organize to fight back politically, militarly and economically and I would not be surprised if they join the allawi alliance to counter Maliki, this is the beauty of this 3 powers in iraqi government, me and my friend against my enemy and round round we go.

if maliki can sustain peace between sadir and hakim's and show measrable and real progress in rebuilding the country he can pull it off as a winner given his shortcomings. You show Iraqis death they settle for a fever and this is what usually happens in Iraq. Kill and destroy the whole country and at the end their blood is cheap if not free and they settle for a no body. The house is divided and that's why and if these morons put their national identity first than their pockets and power then you can see a country in the right direction but each politician is there supported by a foriegn interest / country and that has been the problem in iraq.

so let's hope this year brings more good than bad and iraqis see some, some hope. There is no benefit for the country from the fighting just look at where the world is and where the iraqis are! Even under saddam's days Iraqis didn't see what they are seeing now, even saddam's government with its brutality didn't put its citizens under such conditions and it was able to at least keep the oil prices cheap, provide free medical system, cheap water and electricity and best of all feel its people with a fraction of the budget of this current corrupt government.




NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/19/2008 12:30:04 PM)

Appologise for going offtopic, but Iraqi Nationalist?
Is there such thing, and what is Iraqi Nationalism like, and what is it all about?
I hope you don't shave your heads and go false and unfounded hate propoganda against all who are not your race. I am against all racism - especially since anthropologists have proven that there is no such thing geneticallay - we are all mixed race to some extent. Also, two people of different races are often genetically closer than with people of their same race.

Anyway, I'm just very curious because I never heard of such thing before, so I'll really appreciate it if you explain it to me.
Many thanks in advance bro.



Lion of Babylon -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/21/2008 3:23:20 AM)

I don’t pretend to be a political expert and realise that Iraqi Nationalism is difficult to quantify and some might confuse it with the now defunct Baath Party but this is my take on it. When I say I'm a Nationalist I don't mean ethnic Nationalism. The nationalist movement has deep roots in Iraq and it played a central role in preparing the Iraqi people to resist Ottoman rule and after that the British mandate, ahead of achieving independence in 1932. However nationalism in Iraq was never allowed to fulfill its philosophical objectives and the extremists took over the ideology and basterdised it and turned it into ethnic Nationalism, or in Saddam’s case ‘Tikriti Nationalism’. I don’t much believe in Arab Nationalism either. The contention that there should be one Arab State unified by common interests and goals seems ludicrous to me. The Arabs are not the same and rarely agree on anything so Arab Nationalism is nothing more than a pipedream and will never happen. However when applying Nationalism to an individual country it can work, especially when the country in question is divided like present day Iraq. I don’t recognise the Kurdish State in the north, nor do I agree with the creation of an autonomous Shiite State in the South. I want to see a new Iraqi nationalism based on a shared history, common destiny and united under one main common language. A nationalism that ensures the right of every individual to a standard of living that is sufficient to ensure health and comfort, especially as concerns security, food, clothing, shelter and necessary health and social care. I could go on but you get my drift. Hope this explains my position.



Iraqi100Percent -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/21/2008 10:12:32 AM)

Lion

very well said, could not agree anymore. Iraqis should unite and look for their national identity not based on religion, tribe, language but their long history. Iraq's national identity should be represented by their mesopotamian cizilization that spans thousands of years and was represented in many colors, languages, religions.



YellowSunshine -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/21/2008 3:19:44 PM)

Iraqi100Percent and LOB - from my limited knowledge-base your posts above make sense, very simple and forthright.  In this world of "politics", war, etc...  we need to simplify, bottom line is the care of others, no matter, colour, belief, etc...

Since we now appear to have, or shortly will have a "One World Order" or something to that effect due in part to the world becoming smaller (internet, tv broadcasting, instant communication and so on) I feel it is important to embrace life.

Caring for others, the Love of others is so very important.  It is no secret that I am a Christian (NOT perfect/no one is)and the LOVE of others is #1!

Too bad you weren't both running for office in Iraq!

all the best dude's.

"big mouth momma"



Lion of Babylon -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/22/2008 6:26:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iraqi100Percent

very well said, could not agree anymore. Iraqis should unite and look for their national identity not based on religion, tribe, language but their long history. Iraq's national identity should be represented by their mesopotamian cizilization that spans thousands of years and was represented in many colors, languages, religions.


100%. I think there are many of us here that would like to see a unified Nationalist government take power but unfortunately our voices don't carry weight with the current batch of jokers masquerading as politicians and lawmakers in Iraq. [image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/saddest.gif[/image]



YellowSunshine -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/22/2008 2:48:47 PM)

"jokers masquerading as politicians" LOB above

perhaps this is a world wide issue?

[8|]



Lion of Babylon -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/23/2008 12:37:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowSunshine

"jokers masquerading as politicians" LOB above

perhaps this is a world wide issue?

[8|]



Absolutely. However I only have the energy/willpower to berate, abhor and loath our homegrown comedians who are robbing us blind!



Iraqi100Percent -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/23/2008 10:08:17 AM)

when the dust settles in iraq and depending on the majorty of those who are left the country will ether make a u-turn to the left or to the right. The left one will take them to a multi national, pularistic, socialist approach of government with democracy in mind and multi party government or it will make a right turn to fundamentalizim, one religion somewhat what Iran and Saudi arabia have.

this whole Iraq thing is not a mess, it's a well planned plan from the start and those in government there have been part of this plan with the assistance of the americans and those who are more american/british than Iraqi living out side of Iraq. Those are the ones that don't believe in God because if they did they would not keep their mouths shut at what's happening there.



YellowSunshine -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/23/2008 12:00:01 PM)

quote:

Those are the ones that don't believe in God because if they did they would not keep their mouths shut at what's happening there.
Iraqi100Percent

Can't help but consider your quote above in regards to America.  Same here.





sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/24/2008 11:58:27 AM)

iraqi100percent

i agree with you 100% of what you mentioned :(very well said, could not agree anymore. Iraqis should unite and look for their national identity not based on religion, tribe, language but their long history. Iraq's national identity should be represented by their mesopotamian cizilization that spans thousands of years and was represented in many colors, languages, religions).

but of course without those crazy stupid politicle borders aound mesopotamia (iraq). of course you know that are iraqi lands in syria and iraqi lands in turkey and iraqi lands in iran from the north to the south, if these lands are back to iraq, it will become very powerfull just like it was before 8000 years ago when mesopotamia was the king of the world.
 
and of course at the time of imam ali in kufa and basra and the other iraqi places and the abbasid dynasty before 1230 years ago.[sm=smiley20.gif][sm=smiley20.gif][sm=smiley20.gif]




NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/26/2008 12:20:15 PM)

Thanks man, I see that Iraqi Nationalism is the very opposite of what I was fearing. I was surprise than an intelligent person like you could get into that racist crap, so I asked. :)

I cannot agree anymore with Iraqi Nationalism, I agree with what you said 100%. That is exactly what Iraq needs to even give us a chance to recover from the downwards spiral Iraq is in today.
Iraqi Nationalism will make Iraq as close to a Utopia as it will ever get, not ever got in it's 9,000 year old history. However, the thing is the implementation, which unfortunately seems impossible in Iraq's current environment unless the people wake up to what has become of them.

I really hope one day this will be implemented and we can again see a peacefull, beatifull and united Iraq, with a 3 dollar Iraqi Shigel (our real currency name from Mesopotamia, who Israel has stolen from us) - untill the CIA or some other evil ****s bring another Saddam Hussain, but hopefully we would have learned not to make the same mistakes again.



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/26/2008 3:05:19 PM)

neobabylonian

i am telling the truth iraq with its parts that was stolen from syria and turkey and iran and from ofcourse those crazy stupid the kurds, if all these parts are back to iraq it will become powerful like before 8000 years ago trust me, that is why the world want to divide iraq again. 



NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/26/2008 7:21:55 PM)

My friend sadiq2006,
I totally agree with you. Do you know that once, the Iraqi Dinar was worth more than 3 dollars, now the dollar is worth 1200 dinars?
When you have a unique commodity - and Iraq has many in terms of it's awsome intelligent people who made the first civilisation over 9,000 years agoi in Sumer, the world and his wife will try tear it of your grip - or rather our, grips.
I totally agree, there is a very strong chance that all this war and vioence, and division of the population - which the US and neighbouring countries are not innocent of - is to weaken us. The shame is that it has succeeded. Weak people are easily exploitable people, and all these trillions invested by the US, Iran, Saudi and other countries to forge a long-term influence in Iraq via our blood must be for something worthy - more valuable than oil it seems, but I have no clue what, nor want to play the guessing game.

I totally agree with you my brother, the only way is for a united, peacefull, soveriegn Iraq (I don't like the name 'Iraq'. Our country's real name is Mesopotamia, the English colonialists called it Iraq after the ancient city of Uruk, in Sumaria. I would like them to change back the name to Mesopotamia, as a signal of a new start for our country, a soveriegn era free from us being ****es to outside interests which we have ben for the last five hundered years at least.).



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/27/2008 6:37:03 AM)

neobabylonian

i like it the land between two rivers or the land tigris and furat or the land of the prophets ancestors (noah and ibrahim the grandfather of all the prophets espacially musa and isaa and mohammed peace be upon them all), or i would to call it in three things to describ it :

1- the cradle of the human race.
2- the cradle of the prophets from all the prophets came from their greatest grandfathers noah and ibrahim the mesopotamian prophets (peace be uppon them).
3- the cradle of human civilization.

that is what i want it to be called, not ofcourse with those crazy stupid politicle borders.[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]    



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/27/2008 2:44:27 PM)

neobabylonian

i like to call it sumeria, babylon, akkadian, assyrian, chaldean, amorians and aramians, and ofcourse do not forget the first human history of prophet adam (peace be upon him) started in mesopotamia (iraq) and then continued to idris and noah (the second adam or they call the second father ofthe human race).[:D][:D][:D]



NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/30/2008 8:45:57 AM)

sadiq2006:
I totally agree with you my friend. Mesopotamian is Greek, so maybe Bain El Nahrain would be a good name.
And you are very correct, a lot of Iraqi lands have been stolen by Syria and Turkey and Iran, we should strive to get them back in the future hopefully. But now unfortunately Iraq is very weak, so we can't get them back.

I agree with you 100% friend.



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/31/2008 9:28:53 AM)

neobabylonion

but do not forget that the frist human being that prophet adam (peace be upon him) that his first land that lived in is mesopotamia (iraq) and the history started there that is why the people are jealous.



NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (1/31/2008 10:16:39 AM)

sadiq2006:
 
Very true my friend, that is exactly what followers of monotheistic religions believe. However my brother, I am Atheist (I don't believe in God or religion [:)] ), and I believe in evolution. I believe humans came from monkies in Africa not Prophet Adam (pbuh) and Eve (pbuh). [:D] 

However, most people in the world and middle-east believe in Humanity coming from Adam (pbuh) and Eve (pbuh) like you, so I agree with you 100% akhi that they are all very jealous of Iraq.



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (2/2/2008 11:03:51 AM)

neobabylonian

you are right that is why every country around iraq wants to steal part from iraq to claim for it like the crazy kurds what they are doing, and iran what is doing and syria and turkey, god help iraq neobabylonian, if this continues there is nothing left of iraq any more.[:D][:D][:D]

have you read the last news yesterday about 1 million iraqis have died since the invasion of USA to iraq from 2003 until 2008.[sm=smiley19.gif][sm=smiley19.gif][sm=smiley19.gif]



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (2/2/2008 11:06:06 AM)

neobabylonian

i just have read that in the news paper yesterday.



NeoBabylonian -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (2/2/2008 1:11:18 PM)

sadiq2006

That is very true my friend, everyone seems to want a part of Iraq, or rather, long-term presence and influence there. I blame that for the majority of killing of civilians. Just hope one day Iraqis will wake up and realise how they are being used as political pawns when they are killing their own Iraqi brothers.



sadiq2006 -> RE: Kurdish pipedreams and how to deal with them! (2/6/2008 2:07:34 PM)

neobabylonian

you just said :(Just hope one day Iraqis will wake up and realise how they are being used as political pawns when they are killing their own Iraqi brothers).

the iraqi people knows that very well and they are waking up but they cannot do anything, they are dying everyday. 



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