about a year ago or a little over maliki was in jordan and was supposed to meet Bush there and they had some disagreements and that's when Maliki told bush that he is not America's boy in Iraq.
Now Maliki proposes to sell Iraq from its land to resorces to the Americans for many years to come
now who is America's boy in Iraq?
I also rememebr when saddam got hannged and the news started to flow from maliki's government that they had to hang him fast before saddam can make deal to give Americans bases in Iraq and the oil. Remember these news items that showed up on al Iraqia news channel, the mouthpeice for the iraqi government as well as from Al Alam, the Iranian based TV station?
Now, who's America's boy in Iraq?
Sometimes I do feel for Maliki, this school principle who managed to get a measly degree some how got to become a prime miniter, he's one hell of an achiever if you ask me. Same goes for people before him who managed to become government officials after selling ice, burgers, kabbabs and do pizza dilevary.
In ether case, Maliki and his Dawa party have shown their true American colors with Iranian stripes and Iraqis ended up replacing one Arabic dictator with a Persian-American alliance, represented by a puppet government.
You kind of wonder if Iraq has such an alliance with a country that has killed countless iraqis since 1991, who is Maliki representing when he proposed such alliance? also how can the Americans guarantee such aliance will last if you have a democratically elected government and supposidly election ever 4 years or so?
it just puts this whole democracy b.s. they sold Iraqis to the test and asks the question, was this whole thing all about oil and bringing new dictator to the Iraqis from a minority of the shia, the members of the Dawa party in Iraq? or are the Americans so stupid that they are willing to risk everything since 1991 for the sake of this alliance that could be jeopradised by another so called free election in Iraq?
days will tell the real story but so far Maliki has proven that he's in office to please and execute American interests in the regionm, not the Iraqis.
You see, the real Iraqi army was abandoned on purpose so no coup can ever take place and such army will not be re-built again because the new government is hiding behind the occupiers and as long as the Americans are in the region, these so called Iraqi government and members of parliment are safe. It's like, I get you in Iraq Bush, you use your army to keep me in government for as long as I live. Sounds like another Gulf state doesn't it?
American but has grown a beard and pretended to be from an honorable shia family, with a Ph.D. and who started his political career fliping burgers or delivering pizza, this will really make Izzat Al Doori laugh!
Office of the Press Secretary November 26, 2007 Declaration of Principles for a Long-Term Relationship of Cooperation and Friendship Between the Republic of Iraq and the United States of America
As Iraqi leaders confirmed in their Communiqué signed on August 26, 2007, and endorsed by President Bush, the Governments of Iraq and the United States are committed to developing a long-term relationship of cooperation and friendship as two fully sovereign and independent states with common interests. This relationship will serve the interest of coming generations based on the heroic sacrifices made by the Iraqi people and the American people for the sake of a free, democratic, pluralistic, federal, and unified Iraq. The relationship of cooperation envisioned by the Republic of Iraq and the United States includes a range of issues, foremost of which is cooperation in the political, economic, cultural, and security fields, taking account of the following principles: First: The Political, Diplomatic, and Cultural Spheres 1. Supporting the Republic of Iraq in defending its democratic system against internal and external threats. 2. Respecting and upholding the Constitution as the expression of the will of the Iraqi people and standing against any attempt to impede, suspend, or violate it. 3. Supporting the efforts of the Republic of Iraq to achieve national reconciliation including as envisioned in the Communiqué of August 26. 4. Supporting the Republic of Iraq's efforts to enhance its position in regional and international organizations and institutions so that it may play a positive and constructive role in the region and the world. 5. Cooperating jointly with the states of the region on the basis of mutual respect, non-intervention in internal affairs, rejection of the use of violence in resolving disputes, and adoption of constructive dialogue in resolving outstanding problems among the various states of the region. 6. Promoting political efforts to establish positive relationships between the states of the region and the world, which serve the common goals of all relevant parties in a manner that enhances the security and stability of the region, and the prosperity of its peoples. 7. Encouraging cultural, educational, and scientific exchanges between the two countries. Second: The Economic Sphere 1. Supporting Iraq's development in various economic fields, including its productive capabilities, and aiding its transition to a market economy. 2. Encouraging all parties to abide by their commitments as stipulated in the International Compact with Iraq. 3. Supporting the building of Iraq's economic institutions and infrastructure with the provision of financial and technical assistance to train and develop competencies and capacities of vital Iraqi institutions. 4. Supporting Iraq's further integration into regional and international financial and economic organizations. 5. Facilitating and encouraging the flow of foreign investments to Iraq, especially American investments, to contribute to the reconstruction and rebuilding of Iraq. 6. Assisting Iraq in recovering illegally exported funds and properties, especially those smuggled by the family of Saddam Hussein and his regime's associates, as well as antiquities and items of cultural heritage, smuggled before and after April 9, 2003. 7. Helping the Republic of Iraq to obtain forgiveness of its debts and compensation for the wars waged by the former regime. 8. Supporting the Republic of Iraq to obtain positive and preferential trading conditions for Iraq within the global marketplace including accession to the World Trade Organization and most favored nation status with the United States. Third: The Security Sphere 1. Providing security assurances and commitments to the Republic of Iraq to deter foreign aggression against Iraq that violates its sovereignty and integrity of its territories, waters, or airspace. 2. Supporting the Republic of Iraq in its efforts to combat all terrorist groups, at the forefront of which is Al-Qaeda, Saddamists, and all other outlaw groups regardless of affiliation, and destroy their logistical networks and their sources of finance, and defeat and uproot them from Iraq. This support will be provided consistent with mechanisms and arrangements to be established in the bilateral cooperation agreements mentioned herein. 3. Supporting the Republic of Iraq in training, equipping, and arming the Iraqi Security Forces to enable them to protect Iraq and all its peoples, and completing the building of its administrative systems, in accordance with the request of the Iraqi government. The Iraqi Government in confirmation of its resolute rights under existing Security Council resolutions will request to extend the mandate of the Multi-National Force-Iraq (MNF-I) under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter for a final time. As a condition for this request, following the expiration of the above mentioned extension, Iraq's status under Chapter VII and its designation as a threat to international peace and security will end, and Iraq will return to the legal and international standing it enjoyed prior to the issuance of U.N. Security Council Resolution No. 661 (August, 1990), thus enhancing the recognition and confirming the full sovereignty of Iraq over its territories, waters, and airspace, and its control over its forces and the administration of its affairs. Taking into account the principles discussed above, bilateral negotiations between the Republic of Iraq and the United States shall begin as soon as possible, with the aim to achieve, before July 31, 2008, agreements between the two governments with respect to the political, cultural, economic, and security spheres.
President of the United States of America George W. Bush Prime Minister of the Republic of Iraq Nouri Kamel Al-Maliki
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Life is a mist, a fast runner. a breath and a mist of smoke
Breeze as an American citizen would you abandon your army and throw away all your weapons and ask Mexicans to protect your country from a Canadian threat?
How about surrender your national guards and the marines and ask the French to come to your rescue when Mexicans invade your homeland?
or how about ask the Iraqis to install military bases in the united states, consume your resources and in return, Iraqis would defend your country in the case of a French led invasion?
If that would have to happen, would Bush be considered a patriot? would the moral majority accept it? get my point?
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Long Live The Honorable Iraqis and down with the Safaween.
Well I think that you would hardly call Japan a puppet for the US, but our policies are so interlinked that it's sometimes hard to distinguish. We're really good friends with Japan, a government that we installed.
I don't think that the US policy makers really want to make Iraq a puppet, but it is deffinetly in their interests to make Iraq an ally. It's also Iraqs current interest to have the US as an ally.
We can feed Iraqi interests quite well. Americans are big consumers, and if this whole war was for oil, as some purport, than Iraq can profit from it too. I can assure you the current democracy is far more likely to distribute the oil money for the good of the people than Saddam. Sure, there will be corruption, but the chances are greater with electoral pressure that the corruption will be spent to the benifit of political constituencies, AKA, the voters. Yes, corporate companies will benifit from oil profits too, but they are also taking financial risks and putting a lot of effort into the infrastuction of oil production and exportation.
The nice thing about a demecratic based gov't, is that if they don't do they're job, they get elected out of office. Is it perfect, no, of course not. Is there a perfect governmental system, perhaps in heaven, where men are perfect, but on Earth there is no such thing, so the system that balances and controls the evil the best will have to do.
Pardon me Iraqi100%, i just came upon this news when i read what you posted and i totally agree with you about " Maliki the American Puppet. By signing this agreement, he just did confirm he is americas boy in Iraq. Well every barracks used by the former regime are used as camps by the US soldiers now, the only places having 24hrs electricity aside from the GREENZONE. I am just speaking of my personal opinion thou.
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Life is a mist, a fast runner. a breath and a mist of smoke
Breeze thank you for you support and thanks for bringing us another point of view that we don't have here, a point of view from an american into the iraqi situation and what's taking place on the grounds. We have people such as dritalin who are yet another one of those who say, let's kill, it's ok, it's all bettwe than what we had, it's ok for money to be stolen, corruption is everywhere, blah blah blah no different that those saddamis who used to say what's wrong with killing those who oppose the government, it happens everywhere.
yet he is still comparing the iiraqis to japan, germany, you name it. The same people that went and sold the lies to the american public before the war are now pocketing money and have nothing to say other than their bankrupt agenda and old lines that they were trained to say these years, lie and lie and then lie more until they believe you.
well, my darling dritalin these times have changed and Iraqis are not the Japanese nor the German, don't sell your version of democracy on them, democracy is democracy not the Iraqi version of so called democracy that's nothing but a monopoly between the Dawa party, SCIRI and the Kurds as if we got rid of the Tikritiss to replace them by 3 more.
so dear dritalin save us your fancy lines of iraqi politics and stay in the green zone for god's sake, go stay in there and keep your passport ready in case the real Iraqis liberate Iraq from people like you, hopefully with America's support.
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Long Live The Honorable Iraqis and down with the Safaween.
Maliki is a loser and so are all the so called "IRaqi Gov't" bring Saddam back he was at least Iraqi not like these Iranians runnign the country now. Most of the gov't is Iranian, BRING SADDAM BACK !
I100P, I think you missunderstand me. I'm not a supporter of Maliki, many American politicians that appose Bush, and many that do (arguable even Bush himself) believe that Maliki has failed at political reconcilliation, and in other ways too. I'm not personally a big supporter of Maliki. What I'm saying is that there are difficult challenges for him to face. Any top gov't leader in Iraq right now is faced with a difficult line to walk. If they appear to be a puppet (which I would HATE as an Iraqi also) they lose the support of Iraq, but at the same time in the current situation Iraq needs the US military to uphold the current gov't.
I know that Iraq is not Japan or Germany, I was using them as examples for time when America could have eploited defeated nation for our own good. A prime example is the difference between Soviet controled East Germany where they were poor and heavily persecuted by the Russians. We help rebuild West Germany and then helped keep the Soviets out. I'm not sure what want us to do? Leave the Anbar awakening council to fare on it's own against Al-Quaeda, just abandon the alliance we have with those Sunnis who ask us to stay till their safe? Would you like us to leave the Iraqi millitary to train itself and try to fight a war with Iran and insurgents wile trying to build an officer core? I get the feeling you don't. I'm sure that you are like everyone in America that I know, you don't want people selling you out and running your life. You want to live happy and be free, without interference. You probably want to have a stable job that you go to work every morning, earn a fair wage, and return home safe. Access to healthcare, and school for you kids. I'm sorry your countries in the mess it's in right now. If Iraq didn't want America there to help rebuild the situation in Anbar would never have changed, people wouldn't be joining the military and police forces, and there would be any neighborhood watch's and concerned citizen groups.
If I were you I would be careful about throwing out narrow dialogue without any thoughtful empiricism or analytic approach to thinking. I know that this is an emotional subject for you, but please don't assume who I am or what I believe because of anger and slighted generalizations you have of me. We both want peace.
Now Iraqi100percent, I suggest for you that you take a closer look at the apposing veiws and develope a well thought out response. I understand that you may be emotionally charged by the issues, so please refrain from writing what you innitially feel, and put some genuine effort into writing something with some substance to it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me on anything, but back up your statements with more than just "Iraqis aren't the same as Japan." What makes them different, how then do Iraqis relate to Americans. Finally present some real solutions to these problems.
Just finished watching part of Meet The Press, a statement was said that Maliki's government has only put forth 25 to 40% of the amount of money he had promised to help rebuild Iraq. Even though oil prices are up and the Maliki Government has more than enough funds to take care of this.
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Faith, Hope and Love, the Greatest of these is LOVE!!!
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
dritalin, it's through the brave leadership of one young shiek named abu risha that transformed anbar to a better situation, but so sad to say that just days after meeting with Bush, he got killed.
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Life is a mist, a fast runner. a breath and a mist of smoke
guys watchout the kurds are stealing iraqi people's history from the time prophet adam (peace be upon him) till islam time read this :
Barbaric Attacks on the Assyrian and Mesopotamian History
Fred Aprim California
With the support of the United States, the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) was established in northern Iraq in 1992. Subsequently, efforts ensued to construct the foundation for what could become a new Kurdish nation state. There are those, however, who are convinced that the US at this time at least is unlikely to sponsor a Kurdish state within Iraq that could boost similar aspirations by Kurds in Turkey. Thus Kurds in Iraq could expect some degree of autonomy from the Iraqi Central Government sufficient enough to enable the US to maintain a strategic presence in northern Iraq, watch over Iran and keep Turkey happy at the same time.
At any rate, this new Kurdish nation-state envisioned by the Kurdish leaders in Iraq needed a foundation to be built upon and one pillar to support such foundation is history. The construction of this history was necessary since the Kurds have a relatively brief history in Iraq (Mesopotamia) compared to that of the Assyrians. With a healthy treasury and a strong continuous aid from the US and other European countries, the KRG has allocated millions of dollars on rewriting the Kurdish history. It has contacted and paid politicians and historians around the world for this purpose. Luckily for the Kurds, the fabrication of their history began when there were no experts on Kurdish history, thus their claims set no boundaries.
The KRG did not only rely on the paid Kurdish and non-Kurdish writers, it went further by learning from Saddam Hussein's policies. KRG officials are never shy from making unfounded and outrageous historic claims as they see them fit and then allow those paid writers to justify such claims. If we look at Saddam Hussein's claims, we would see that he first claimed that he was a descendent of Mohammad. Then he turned around and claimed that King Nabuchednassar of Babylon was his ancestor. Kurdish officials have learned from such chauvinistic and brutal dictatorship as they too with insolence and sauciness claim that they are the descendents of the Medes, Hittites and other Indo-European races and then turn around and claim that the Sumerian, Akkadian and Assyrian kings were Kurdistanis as well. One does not understand, are the Kurds Indo-Europeans or Semites, because one could not be both. I guess some Kurdish writers and politicians think that the Kurds are unique like no other people on earth as one half of the Kurdish body is Indo-European, while the other half is Semitic.
The rewriting of the Kurdish history requires much manipulation, appropriation, imagination and great disguise. The examples of the barbaric attack on the history of Assyria and Mesopotamia by certain paid Kurdish writers and officials are plentiful. The Kurdish assault on Mesopotamian history is turning to become a major offensive as more and more appalling claims by those arrogant Kurdish writers and politicians turn on various sites or media outlets.
Allow me to list the following examples:
Dr. Farsat Mur'ai
Dr. Farsat Mur'ai, a Kurd, is the Head of the Kurdish Central Studies in the University of Dohuk, northern Iraq. The corruption of history by Dr. Farsat would make world's theologians and historians scratch their heads. Let me just point to one of the most outrageous claims made recently by this so-called history teacher. Dr. Farsat claims that the early fathers of Syriac literature and theology Mar Aprim the great, Mar Narsai and Bardisan were Kurdish Christians. There is not much that a person can say about such an outlandish claim.
On May 18, 2006, the al-Jazeera.net published an article by Dr. Farsat Mur'ai titled "The Historic Role of Kurds." In his article, Dr. Farsat speaks about the role of the Kurds in world's history and claims that the Kurds had a rather important role, because the world's first civilizations appeared on Kurdish lands. He adds that the ancient people of Iraq, including the Sumerians, Akkadians, and Assyrians were considered to be the second wave of mankind that spread after the resting of Utnapishtim's (Noah) Ark on one of the Kurdish mountains. He claims that this is recorded in the Akkadian and Assyrian ancient texts. Dr. Farsat continues later to claim that the third millennia B.C. historic records have saved the names of many gods that were worshipped by the people of northern Mesopotamia, the ancient people of Kurdistan, in addition to few myths or epics that had great influence on the development of civic awareness and mental structure for those nations and the surrounding nations as they began to have common feelings that framed civic, economic and political relationships. Dr. Farsat continues on and claims that other gods made the doctrine of the people of northern and eastern Mesopotamia or Subartu. These gods that originated from the Hindu-Aryan mythology, he claims, left their homes of southern Russia in the beginning of the second millennia B.C. and headed towards India, Iran, Anatolia and Subartu (Kurdistan).
I just wonder, where did Dr. Farsat see those claimed Assyrian and Akkadian ancient texts that refer to that certain Kurdish mountain? Did he see those texts in his dreams? The rest of the gibberish that he claims is nothing but a figment of his imagination and he is brilliant at mixing up Mesopotamia, Subartu and the illusive Kurdistan to confuse the simple readers.
Fadhil Mirani
During the early 1990s, Fadhil Mirani, Political Bureau Secretary of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) of Massoud Barazani, head of the Kurdish front in Dohuk at the time, repeatedly used racist methods to divide the Assyrians with methods similar to those of Saddam's Ba'ath regime. Foremost among their tactics were financing divisionists in northern Iraq to undermine the Assyrian history and making the Assyrians known as a group of separate religious denominations rather than a distinct ethnic group, thus questioning the historic rights of Assyrians in northern Iraq and rejecting the Assyrian rooted history in the region.
Mulla Bakhtiyar
On October 22, 2007, al-Malaf Press posted an interview with Mulla Bakhtiyar, In Charge of Foreign Relations Bureau in the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) party under Jalal Talabani.
Mr. Bakhtiyar stated that there were investigations and international historic studies during the previous League of Nations regarding Kirkuk, Sulaimaniya, Dohuk, Arbil and Mosul that prove that those regions are Kurdistani regions and that those regions were/are inhabited by the indigenous Kurdish people. Mr. Bakhtiyar answered a question regarding the rights of the Turkoman for example to establish a region for themselves in northern Iraq and he stated: "…It is known that nations (peoples) have the legal right to establish their own states or regions if they had historic and geographical lands; however, the Turkomen and ChaldoAshur [referring to Assyrians] are residing in Kurdistan and they have full citizenship rights in it, but they, i.e., Turkomen and Assyrians, do not own/have any Turkomeni or ChaldoAshuri [Assyrian] lands in Kurdistan and/or in Iraq."
This writer published a detailed article about Mr. Bakhtiyar's statement as a guest editorial for AINA. Mr. Bakhtiyar must be blind since he fails to recognize all the Assyrian archaeological findings in northern Iraq and in world's museums, when we know for a fact that there is not a single ancient Kurdish monument, stele, artifact, tablet, etc., about people known as Kurds in northern Iraq.
Mahrdad Izady
The writings of Kurdish writer Mehrdad R. Izady regarding the claimed Kurdish essence of northern Iraq have influenced many, including David Axe and Dr. Victor Sharpe M.D., who repeat the history fabrications of Izady. For example, on July 30, 2007, Victor Sharpe, a medical doctor, posted an article on the web site of Israel Hasbara Committee where he copied the claims of Izady that the royal house of Adiabene was Kurdish.
This writer published a detailed response to Dr. Sharpe's statement as a guest editorial for AINA. Did Dr. Sharpe M.D. study reliable history accounts, including those of 1st Century renowned Jewish historian Flavius Josephus who asserts that Adiabene (Arbella or Arbil) was Assyrian and the Adiabeni people were Assyrians? (See Whinston, William. Translator. The Works of Josephus. Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers Inc. 1999.) I will leave this to the Jewish scholars to figure out. Because, if we assume that the accounts of the 1st Century father of Jewish history Josephus are false and those of Izady and Dr. Sharpe M.D. are correct, then the Jewish scholars have a lot of explaining to do and they have much to lose on an academic level. This would put a big question mark on other accounts by the famous 1st Century Jewish historian Josephus, if one assumes that he was wrong about Adiabene and Izady and Dr. Sharpe M.D. are correct.
Changing Educational Material
The KRG intimidates Assyrian individuals or groups that do not agree with its policies in northern Iraq. The Assyrians must accept any preconditions set by the KRG if any benefits are to be granted. For example, the Sixth Grade Geography Curriculum book taught in Syriac Schools in northern Iraq forces the Assyrians to print that Simko the warlord who murdered the Assyrian Patriarch Mar Benyamin Shimun in 1918 was a national hero. As we know, Simko invited the Assyrian patriarch to his home to negotiate peace terms. However, after the negotiations were completed and Simko accompanied the patriarch outside and as the patriarch was attempting to ride his carriage, Simko went inside immediately and his men began to open fire and shot the patriarch in the back. Is that the act of a national hero or a coward? If the Assyrians refuse to print this in the book, the Kurdish authorities would not approve the curriculum and perhaps close the schools. The policy of the KRG is no different than that of Saddam Hussein, who was involved in the policy of forced Arabization and indoctrination of the non-Arab people in Iraq. Today, the KRG is involved in the policy of forced Kurdification and indoctrination of the non-Kurdish people in northern Iraq.
Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani
Jalal Talabani, the Head of the PUK and the current Iraqi president, had declared earlier that he is not aware of the presence of Assyrians in Iraq. In the hallways and corridors of the Iraqi cabinet, Kurdish officials in the Iraqi Central government continue to spread the poison that Assyrians have no lands in Iraq, thus the Iraqi Assyrian Christians are simply outsiders residing in the country.
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I am bringing up these examples for two main purposes: First, it is to refute certain claims (including those of certain Assyrian groups or individuals working for the KRG currently) that claim that the undermining of Assyrian history and rewriting that of the region are not a collective policy of the KRG and Kurdish leadership. These few claim that such actions are of individual nature, but as we see from the above few examples that that is not the case and that politicians and officials of the KRG are in the center of this campaign. The second purpose is to bring attention to what is going on in northern Iraq as Kurdish politicians, officials, and writers construct their new history. They do this via a meticulous campaign that includes indoctrination, deceit, falsification and corruption of history to achieve two main goals: The first is to make everyone digest the myth of the rooted Kurdishness of northern Iraq. The second is to make everyone accept that they are Kurdistanis living on the supposedly historic Kurdish lands. Most of the articles on Kurdish history written by Kurdish writers are in essence a collection of historical events, but those events are restructured and represented in a way that suit the Kurdish agenda in rewriting the history of northern Iraq (Assyria). Kurdish writers and officials conveniently insert the name Kurds and Kurdistan wherever and whenever necessary and with that they create a new version of Mesopotamian history, Kurdish style. One could recommend these claims to be read as a comic tale, but it is not funny either. The KRG might pay certain media groups to promote this corrupted version of history, but the KRG and those paid writers would never be able to ignore the thousands of steles, monuments, artifacts, tablets, ancient cuneiform and old Syriac texts and a wealth of history documents that prove the Assyrian essence of northern Iraq. They could not ignore tons of archaeological evidence that fill the world's museums or those pieces of history that continue to be excavated in northern Iraq, that prove beyond any reasonable doubt the strictly Assyrian origin of the region.
Let me be clear that the Kurdish people deserve attention and have the right for self-determination, but this attention and/or special treatment that they are receiving must not be granted at the expense of the demise of the indigenous ethnic people of the region, namely the Assyrians, or other ancient religious minorities such as the Yezidis.
It is unfortunate that certain non-Kurdish writers and self-proclaimed historians blindly copycat corrupted versions of history of Mesopotamia and Assyria written by certain Kurdish writers and nationalists. They do this without serious efforts to investigate such claims made by Kurdish nationalists and writers that are constructing a new history for northern Iraq (Assyria), Assyrians and for the Kurdish people. We must encourage genuine Kurdish scholars to step up to the plate and challenge these revisionists. We encourage them to write the history of Kurds in Iraq, a genuine history narrative that is, which would be respected by academia and not allow politicians and blind nationalists to write a history that is the laughing stock of the world historic and archaeological societies.
Unfortunately, the methodical campaign of denying, corrupting and usurping the history of northern Iraq and Assyrians goes on today in the supposedly new, free and democratic Iraq. What is most unfortunate is that certain Kurdish officials and writers continue to do this while many Assyrians are busy with controversies and internal conflicts created by their churches. These churches are vulnerable and their leaders have been and continue to be influenced by certain governments in the Middle East and most recently by the empowered KRG.
i have never seen in my entire life such animals and naive people like those crazy stupid basterd kurds, they are npt human beings they are devils and demons and killers.
dritalin, I know what situation Iraq is now and how the country got there not before saddam, he's dead his days are over and gone so let's stop beating on the old rag and or once let's move forward and start to take responsibility for what has happened after that even the achitechts of the US led was, namely kannan Makiya, Chalabil and so and so and so are now saying that hat has happened after saddam is no different that what saddam has done in the past 30 years, the difference is that these guys did what saddam did in no more than 4 years.
so first of all, let's acknwledge mistakes done in the so called new iraq and try go correct it, not cover it up and not talk about it, or call people names to assaninate their character and shut them up.
1- we all agree that abandonig the Iraqi army was one of the biggest mistakes but rather than fix it, we keep ignoring it.
2- we all agree that militias should not be art of the government, especially militia that is religious in nature, tied to and trained in Iran, Iraq's enemy for 8 years.
3-we all agree a government should listen to all sides, not shut the minority sunni's when they have an issue with maliki and ignore their demands and only listen to shia like the SCIRI and Sadr for example when they make thwir own demdns
4- no one is above the law and if maliki wants to make an example of that he can start to do a clean up in his own house and govenment
5- with what happened in anbar should not be taken advantage of by maliki to plant the seed of division to make the sunnis fight each other, old trick in the book. He needs to act as a prime minister, not a school principle backing one against another and stabbing others in the back.
I can keep going on and on. This government needs to act more Iraqi but so far it has been acting as an Iranian run show, wearing American clothes.
The reason I brough Germany and Japan because those Iraqis who sold the ideas of "why aren't we different than the Germans" or "What's wrong with the Iraqis, they can achieve what the Japanese have done" well srry buddy, these people have already realized what others have told them long ago but they wanted to experiment and find out themselves that Iraqis are not yet ready for western style democracy because as long as you have political parties tangled with religious figures, say good by to secular society, middle class, democracy, law and order and welcome to corrution, secterian government and political assasinations under the umbrella of anonymous militias, but not so anonymous.
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Long Live The Honorable Iraqis and down with the Safaween.
Breeze, I remember when I heard of the death of Sheikh Abu Risha. I had been following the movement for a wile and was honestly a bit sad when I heard of how those people took advantage of his hospitality.
I100P, the five points that you stated were wonderfull. I agree with them. The Shia led gov't is not doing it's job, pure and simple. Hopefully with the Sunni's participating more in elections the process will be sped up.
As for Democracy your right. Iraq needs a secular gov't to succeed as a free society. This was the lesson learned by the men who framed the US constitution over 200 years ago. They had fled England, and other parts of Europe to escape religious monarchies. So when they wrote the constitution they were very concerned with people being free to choose their religion. Another point of the US constitution is that it IS NOT a system of majority rule. Jefferson, Franklin, and other influential framers (of the constitution) believed that true democracy led to mobacracy, or rule of the mob. The majority, it was feared would strongarm the minorities rights away. I think maybe that's whats happening in Iraq.
I do however think that your wrong about one thing. I believe that the people in Iraq, the average joes, are ready for an open free society. It makes sense to my mind that in any country that most people would rather be free. The trick is finding away to temper and control the thugs, like corupt politicians, militia leaders, and criminal extortionists.
thanks for your replies Iraq100P, what part of Iraq are you from?
It makes sense to my mind that in any country that most people would rather be free. The trick is finding away to temper and control the thugs, like corupt politicians, militia leaders, and criminal extortionists.
dustin above
also makes sense to me, however, not dictated by another country, would have to be set up by their own people (Iraqi's), taking into account their history, customs and so on. from what i understand "the average joe" has had lacking education that needs to be corrected. perhaps prior to the above?
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Faith, Hope and Love, the Greatest of these is LOVE!!!
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
One other Major Issue we now have is that the world is "shrinking". Communication has expanded and it is difficult for countries that have differing systems in place. I do NOT approve of the idea of a "New World Order or One World Order". However, we do have world wide issues because of the above. hope this makes sense
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Faith, Hope and Love, the Greatest of these is LOVE!!!
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
You may be right that the education has to come, but I would think that the free society (including free exchange of information) would lead to greater education.
Freedom however in the simple form is, I would imageine, pretty easy to understand.
about a year ago or a little over maliki was in jordan and was supposed to meet Bush there and they had some disagreements and that's when Maliki told bush that he is not America's boy in Iraq.
Now Maliki proposes to sell Iraq from its land to resorces to the Americans for many years to come
now who is America's boy in Iraq?
I also rememebr when saddam got hannged and the news started to flow from maliki's government that they had to hang him fast before saddam can make deal to give Americans bases in Iraq and the oil. Remember these news items that showed up on al Iraqia news channel, the mouthpeice for the iraqi government as well as from Al Alam, the Iranian based TV station?
Now, who's America's boy in Iraq?
Sometimes I do feel for Maliki, this school principle who managed to get a measly degree some how got to become a prime miniter, he's one hell of an achiever if you ask me. Same goes for people before him who managed to become government officials after selling ice, burgers, kabbabs and do pizza dilevary.
In ether case, Maliki and his Dawa party have shown their true American colors with Iranian stripes and Iraqis ended up replacing one Arabic dictator with a Persian-American alliance, represented by a puppet government.
You kind of wonder if Iraq has such an alliance with a country that has killed countless iraqis since 1991, who is Maliki representing when he proposed such alliance? also how can the Americans guarantee such aliance will last if you have a democratically elected government and supposidly election ever 4 years or so?
it just puts this whole democracy b.s. they sold Iraqis to the test and asks the question, was this whole thing all about oil and bringing new dictator to the Iraqis from a minority of the shia, the members of the Dawa party in Iraq? or are the Americans so stupid that they are willing to risk everything since 1991 for the sake of this alliance that could be jeopradised by another so called free election in Iraq?
days will tell the real story but so far Maliki has proven that he's in office to please and execute American interests in the regionm, not the Iraqis.
You see, the real Iraqi army was abandoned on purpose so no coup can ever take place and such army will not be re-built again because the new government is hiding behind the occupiers and as long as the Americans are in the region, these so called Iraqi government and members of parliment are safe. It's like, I get you in Iraq Bush, you use your army to keep me in government for as long as I live. Sounds like another Gulf state doesn't it?
American but has grown a beard and pretended to be from an honorable shia family, with a Ph.D. and who started his political career fliping burgers or delivering pizza, this will really make Izzat Al Doori laugh!
Way to go
Very well said, and I totally agree with you. I'd also just like to add that could this US-Iran tensions based on trying to win some **** (Maliki's) affections? The Iranians are playing the exact same game as the Americans, except their soldiers are covert, wearing civilian clothes and speaking Iraqi, some of whom are brainwashed traitorous or naive Iraqis who thinks Iran has Shia interests at heart. Same goes for Saudi (trying to deny it as they might) and Syria who are funding/using the Sunni militias. It's proxy-war season again people - even the US is muscling on it using the 'Iraqi Awakening' (who some report are but mercenaries, and still murder innocent Iraqis) - no one's stupid enough to use their own people to fight this war, only fooled naive Iraqis do their dirty-work.
Sorry if this is sounding like a conspiracy theory, but I only base it on what I know and convinces me. People have been fighting for control of our land for millenia. World War 1 was caused by Germany and Austro-Hungary wanting to build a rail-road from Germany to Iraq, running through the Balkans, which caused tensions and Arch-Duke Franz Ferdinand's assasination. WW2 was caused from tensions from WW1. And if this political BS, proxy-wars and instability in the region - even the world, continues, we might see WW3, also caused by people fighting over Iraq.
Lets add that to the list of the Mesopotamian people's achievements, along inventing civilisation, writing and the wheel, lol.
quote:
ORGINAL: dritalin Well I think that you would hardly call Japan a puppet for the US, but our policies are so interlinked that it's sometimes hard to distinguish. We're really good friends with Japan, a government that we installed.
I don't think that the US policy makers really want to make Iraq a puppet, but it is deffinetly in their interests to make Iraq an ally. It's also Iraqs current interest to have the US as an ally.
We can feed Iraqi interests quite well. Americans are big consumers, and if this whole war was for oil, as some purport, than Iraq can profit from it too. I can assure you the current democracy is far more likely to distribute the oil money for the good of the people than Saddam. Sure, there will be corruption, but the chances are greater with electoral pressure that the corruption will be spent to the benifit of political constituencies, AKA, the voters. Yes, corporate companies will benifit from oil profits too, but they are also taking financial risks and putting a lot of effort into the infrastuction of oil production and exportation.
The nice thing about a demecratic based gov't, is that if they don't do they're job, they get elected out of office. Is it perfect, no, of course not. Is there a perfect governmental system, perhaps in heaven, where men are perfect, but on Earth there is no such thing, so the system that balances and controls the evil the best will have to do.
I have to disagree with you there. The problem is that the US has exploited the instability and anarchy, so have already made massive binding long-term contracts for us to sell them cheap oil, and let them pillage our resources. No government can change that, and I can't blame a system based truely on making more money and expoiltation of coming up with that. Voting Maliki out of office will just bring another leader whose helpless in changing that. And there is NO democracy as long as there is anarchy, and terrorists who force people opposed to voting for their affiliation to vote at gunpoint. The only choice of Iraq's interests is to get out all contracts (even reconstruction, which should be awarded to Iraqi firms, using US money, to create jobs), and focus on installing stability by martial law or whatever - even if we have to summon Shaitan to hep us do it. Then we can focus on the paperwork. Exploitation is inevitable in the current climate.
< Message edited by NeoBabylonian -- 12/10/2007 10:38:15 AM >
do you think that the japanese like us as american and what we did to them in the WW1 and WW2 no i do not think so, and do you think that the iraqis want us the americans as allays no i do not think so, nobody believes we americans and also our politics any more.
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Maliki the American Puppet - 
The Iranians are playing the exact same game as the Americans, except their soldiers are covert, wearing civilian clothes and speaking Iraqi, some of whom are brainwashed traitorous or naive Iraqis who thinks Iran has Shia interests at heart. Same goes for Saudi (trying to deny it as they might) and Syria who are funding/using the Sunni militias. It's proxy-war season again people 
- even the US is muscling on it using the 'Iraqi Awakening' (who some report are but mercenaries, and still murder innocent Iraqis) - no one's stupid enough to use their own people to fight this war, only fooled naive Iraqis do their dirty-work. 
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