If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (Full Version)

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dritalin -> If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/25/2007 3:01:33 AM)

How come do I have to keep paying more and more for oil? It's driving me insane. I'm starting to think that we should go and invade another Middle Eastern country.

Ok...I kid. I hope that wasn't a bad joke.

In all seriousness, do you all think that the US soldier are doing an OK job in Iraq? I mean it's a hard mission for our guys over there, and they don't complain, but their just obeying orders. I know there's going to be a few bad guys no matter where you go, but overall are the US military guys in Iraq treating the people there with respect, or are they disrespectfull? Now I'm not talking the army as a whole, but the guys walken around with their boots on the ground. How are they doing?

It's hard to tell in the US because some newspapers say their torturing and killing Iraqis, others say their passing out soccer balls and candy. I'm sure there's at least some truth to all of it, but I'm asking about what you've seen, or heard about from people you know. When you see, or think of a US soldier, what do you think and feel?

I hope I'm not off topic here.
Thanks,
Dustin




Lion of Babylon -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/25/2007 7:52:08 AM)

Hi Dustin,

Well its a bit of both. I left Iraq nearly 3 years ago but the reports I'm getting from family are that the soldiers patrolling the streets are very nervous so some adopt a shoot first policy. This is very different from the early days of the occupation when the soldiers mixed with the local populace, even exchanging their army meals for hamburgers and Pepsi from the street markets. Now the foot patrols in Baghdad don't mix because they are targeted and don't know where the next attack is coming from. Its a different ball game now and both sides simply don't trust the other. I can only speak for myself but I don't blame the soldiers, rather the US politicians who sent them to my country. As you said, soldiers are the same everywhere, they just follow orders and in every basket there are some rotten apples. However the Abu Ghraib torture and the photos that were published on the internet showing soldiers torturing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners pretty much destroyed any good will from the Iraqi side. Those in charge of the prisoners were specialists and should have been properly vetted prior to being given the responsibility. Their horrible acts made all Iraqis question the whole US policy and gave them the impression that there was no difference between Saddam and the US decision makers. I'm sure as an American you found the images just as sickening as we did. It damaged the US image internationally, not only in Iraq.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.




dritalin -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/25/2007 10:26:54 PM)

Yah thats got to be tough for a soldier. I'm slated to be over there sometime within a year.

It's really interesting that you point out that the soldiers aren't mixing with the population. In the new counterinsurgency manual they've really began stressing the importance of mingling with the local population. Our commanders have been given instructions to take greater security risks to mingle with the people. Smaller, less secure operating bases. More frequent foot patrols by smaller units. Brigade level commanders have been given direct access to contracting funds. Bases that have mixed Iraqi and American units. More time spent on humanitarian missions. Greater restraint in detainment opperations, ie, nocking on doors rather than nocking doors down. The list goes on.

At first a lot of the commanders were reluctant to put their guys on the line, but it seems like everyones abuzz with this strategy. Personally I'm all for it. We, as Americans, could blame Saddam for the hole thing, but the fact is we removed Iraqs gov't, whether it was lagitamite or not. Now we're helping them rebuild, I have no problem standing side by side with Iraqi citizens and soldiers to take risks to rebuild they're country.

So hopefully LoB, you start hearing more reports from family in Iraq that the troops are mixing with the population.

Dustin




Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/26/2007 10:46:10 AM)

Hi all

Mixing with the locals or not isn't the issue.  The government sent those soldiers without educating them on iraqi people, their customes, habbits, history and so on.  They never taught them that for the Muslims, their houses are an extension from their mosques, and as holy as a mosque.  Many incidants when soldiers went in with their sniffer dogs, dirty boots, walked on the praying carpets, disrespecting the people, and treating them like animals, while they are in their own homes, own country. 
I am not against the americans or the british, I lived in the UK for 34yrs.  Otherwise I would've been killed if I stayed, but they should've gone in, and out quickly.  They should've not dismantle the Iraqi police and army but change their leaders.  They should've helped in building the bombed building, instead a £650m new embassy.  They should've restored electricity, water, basic services, instead of widening the divide between Sunni's and Shiats also christians. 
No one trust the americans, not only in Iraq but worldwide, and that because of their policies.  You can't manufacture freedom and democracy and present it as a gift to the people who never ever been free.
I strongly believe that the time has come when they should pull out from major cities and towns, and maybe have their bases near by until law and order is restored.  Maybe to pull out completely out of the country, or become the border control forces.  That will stablise the country.




Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/26/2007 8:25:42 PM)

this footage made me laugh, if anyone touches my car I'll kill them.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yco1deXOzN8




Harry -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/27/2007 10:55:08 AM)

I don’t blame anyone trying to blowup a Humvee, they call it minimizing the risk of attack; I call it being nothing but bullies. Humvees do have horns, don’t they? Another thing could be done; install sirens.




Laurence -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/27/2007 11:15:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry

I don’t blame anyone trying to blowup a Humvee, they call it minimizing the risk of attack; I call it being nothing but bullies. Humvees do have horns, don’t they? Another thing could be done; install sirens.


It's ridiculous that we feel we can bully the traffic that way. Makes me ashamed. I totally agree -- why not sirens, IF there is a clear and present emergency?




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/27/2007 7:00:01 PM)

[:D]YO, calm, were u on ANOTHER bloody holiday, for crying out loud! hugs




Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/28/2007 7:37:02 PM)

yes i was...had three weeks in greece, and they don't have humvees there, but they have donkeys.

In fact, any motor the greeks can find, even a washing machine motor, they would put 3/4 wheels on it and drive it.  No licence, insurance or anything.  Its fanctastic how simple life can be, and its amazing that some of those people see civilization yet they are happy with what they have.  I love the greek people.

I met an Iraqi woman at the airport.  She kept looking at me, so I approached her.  I introduced myself, and blow me, she was a distant relative.  She lost her daughter, son in law, and two children by the americans firing at the car for not stopping.  I believe the husband thought they were waving hello, not stop.  She broke her heart crying.

Sad...! God only knows how many stories like those we haven't heard of them.




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/29/2007 3:42:16 PM)

this is so dreadfully sad.  it is a wonder she can function. 

i have ran into folks like that in the strangest places, it is an odd feeling at x's.

i spent some time in portugal/spain and it took me some x to get accustomed to the slow pace, i was always in a hurry and they really know how to relax, sounds similar in greece.




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/30/2007 2:34:37 PM)

"In all seriousness, do you all think that the US soldier are doing an OK job in Iraq? I mean it's a hard mission for our guys over there, and they don't complain, but their just obeying orders. I know there's going to be a few bad guys no matter where you go, but overall are the US military guys in Iraq treating the people there with respect, or are they disrespectfull? Now I'm not talking the army as a whole, but the guys walken around with their boots on the ground. How are they doing?"
Dustin's quote above

"Mixing with the locals or not isn't the issue.  The government sent those soldiers without educating them on iraqi people, their customes, habbits, history and so on.  They never taught them that for the Muslims, their houses are an extension from their mosques, and as holy as a mosque.  Many incidants when soldiers went in with their sniffer dogs, dirty boots, walked on the praying carpets, disrespecting the people, and treating them like animals, while they are in their own homes, own country. "
Calm's quote

Thank you Dustin for your question, I do wish the US Military would educate more on customs, history, etc., it is a very important issue.  It is easy to insult otherx without meaning to when we do not understand their way of looking at things.  Things would go much smoother if they were educated prior to going to any foreign country.






Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (11/30/2007 11:27:01 PM)

My sister lost her husband just after the 91 war.  He was a lecturer in the medical college.  A doctor in organic chemistry.  She went to collect the pension, which she hadn't done for ages because of the unstability of the situation.  She was forced to stand in a long queue in the heat of the son, eventhough she explained to the american soldier that she is very ill woman with heart condition.  He shouted at her, and pushed her hard with the butt of his M/gun.  She fell to the ground, and scraped her back and leg.  The men standing in the queue began shouting at the soldier.  My sister was educated in London, and spoke good english, and gave him a peice of her mind.  The men there made her go in front of them and collect the money.  That was 3 years ago, and she never went again.
The way the american soldiers treated the local people with disrespect is unforgivable.  No one has the right to go in someone's house and order them to change their way of living, no one has the right to occupy another country and tell the people what low class scum they are, or how ignorant and uneducated they are.
The american did us a favour by getting rid of Saddam, but they have over stayed their welcome, and turned majority of people in Iraq and world wide against them. 
If you look at history, there never been an empire that didn't collapse.

I love the american people, but dislike their governments.




dritalin -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/1/2007 5:39:47 PM)

Calm, let me explain some of the history of why US soldiers act how they do...

In World War II America was thrown into a world conflict primarily against Germany, Italy, and Japan. In order to dominate these conflicts the US millitary developed an effective strategy and mindset for defeating convential armies (conventional meaning Tanks, Battleships, soldiers in uniforms organized into Battallions, and so forth.) There were battle lines and we knew who the enemy was, and where they were. America was not only able to defend itself, but also able to liberate England, France, Belgium, Poland, and all of Europe, as well as China, Burma, the Phillipines, and the entire Asia Pacific region. This is how we acheived the so called "superpower" status. The next conflict that lay on our doorsteps was the incursion of Communism. So to combat communism we developed mass armies and prepared for a war on the Eurpopean battlefield. What we got instead was a communist insurgency in Vietnam.

What we did in Vietnam was wrong, but with the former context understandable. We went into an insurgency (which is largely political) with a conventional army. Because of completely unimaginative beurocrats many intelligent people were suppressed and any bennificiall learning that could have changed policy and led to a victory.

When the North Vietcong defeated the US, we returned home to lick our wounds and the Military lost much of it's prestige as both a fighting force and the political bulwarts of American Noblesque Oblige (do gooder..ness). This had lead to two key changes in the military that lead to the army that we have today. A) Congress stoped the draft and converted to Army into an all vollunteer army. Meaning that everyone in the US military made the decision to join, and was not legally forced to. and B) Many of the ranking officers retired or otherwise left the armed forces. What happened was there became a more eager, highly trained and ready for change military.

In the early ninetees when Saddam invaded Kuwait the US was asked with a coalition to intervene. The ground conflict lasted 100 hours and was a display of American strength in conventional warfare. When America returned to the Gulf in 2003 to oust Saddam the military prepared for a repeat of the 1991 conflict. The US quickly defeat Saddams army, but was not prepared for the insurgency that soon developed.

This is where the US military of today differs from the US military of Vietnam. When the chips were down and the insurgency stong (in late 06 Military intelligence and the leading generals declared Andar lost to Al-queada) the US military changed it's tactics. The command was changed to General Patraeus, who worked fervently to develope a countersisurgency doctrine. The US military set up a training center in Iraq for COIN (counter insurgency) training, where the emphasis was on dealing with the local leaders. Few conventional armies in the history of the world have developed this approach to war fighting, with Britain being a stalwart exception. The COIN school tought US commanders in everything from how to deal out funds for local construtction problems to spending more time sipping tea in long meetings with sheikhs. Also more emphasis was placed on training, equiping and preparing Iraqi security forces to defend their homeland. This included combining Iraqi forces with US and coalition forces in combined units and putting them in combined barracks. Another crucial role for the new COIN operations was the political side. More attention is being payed to the political landscape and conditions of Iraq, and more presure is being excerted on Iraqi parlamentary leaders (and Maliki) to hurry up with reconciliation, passing a budget, deviding oil revenues, developing the military and police, and eliminating corruption.

COIN is a difficult way to fight a war and requires an enormous amount of discipline, training, and restraint. The US commanders were at first hesitant to adopt the strategy (out of concern for their soldiers), but nearly all US officers (Lt. to Gen.) are on board, and the non-commissioned officers are comming on line. The trickle down effect will soon fall into the US fighting men and women, and the people training them. So hopefully soon we will see, especially as the security situation improves, more warmth on the side of US soldiers as they begin to realize that every Iraqi is not an Al-Queada operative in disguise rooting for their death.




sadiq2006 -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/7/2007 8:41:04 AM)

dritalin

asan american like you we do not have any descent history america history is all fake and rubbish, and the american are always naive what they see in the television and fooling on what they see, if you look at the american history from 300 or 400 years ago when the europeons killed all the red indians (the native people of this land), you that the american policy is still using it from that time up until now, we americans will never learn from our mistakes just like the kurds what they are doing no history for them just like the americans. 

god bless my country men. 




sadiq2006 -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/7/2007 8:49:46 AM)

dritalin

the americans gave the green light to saddam hussain to invade kuwait that is our amercian government always playing with fire, and they thought of that before 50 years ago to invade iraq and gulf region to steal the oil, get that through your thick skull. 




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/11/2007 8:10:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sadiq2006

dritalin

asan american like you we do not have any descent history america history is all fake and rubbish, and the american are always naive what they see in the television and fooling on what they see, if you look at the american history from 300 or 400 years ago when the europeons killed all the red indians (the native people of this land), you that the american policy is still using it from that time up until now, we americans will never learn from our mistakes just like the kurds what they are doing no history for them just like the americans. 

god bless my country men. 


Sadiq my dear man, not ALL of America's History is rubbish.  Not ALL American Policy is CRAP, I will agree there is  a lot of not very pleasant situations going on and things have happened throughout history that is NOT pretty.  HOWEVER, you can not lump ALL as garbage my friend.

[sm=smiley31.gif][sm=smiley27.gif][sm=smiley9.gif][8|]




Lion of Babylon -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/15/2007 2:02:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sadiq2006

1. as an american like you

2. we americans will never learn from our mistakes

3. god bless my country men. 


[image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image]




dritalin -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/16/2007 8:07:46 PM)

lol Lion of Babylon. It boggles the mind.




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/16/2007 9:49:32 PM)

Sadiq your country men are Americans?  Or have I had too much wine?  I love you honey bear, but somex's you are a tad confusing.

I REPEAT MY DEAR FRIEND NOT ALL AMERICAN ARE AS**O**S.  IF YOU GET MY DRIFT?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Many are not, many are, there are idiots, hypocrites in every country.

True Story Sadiq.  You can NOT lump all together dude.

[sm=smiley31.gif]






sadiq2006 -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/17/2007 1:33:12 PM)

yellowsunshine

since when the american history has a great history killing about milloins and milloins and millions of the red indians before 400 years ago, and you are telling me that there is a good history, tell me what is nice about america just creating problems to the world and lisetening always to israel without any thougts and dignity, did you know that the are many american soldiers in iraq and in afganistan are comitting suicide (kikking themselves with this crzy stupid war) the americans politicions will never learn their mistakes as long as the american governments keep lieing to our kind and generous american.[&o][X(][:o] 




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/18/2007 10:02:02 AM)

sadiq, i realize the american government has made some terrible "errors in judgement"  probably for the all consuming power of the almighty dollar.  you can not serve 2 God's ...  i am praying, hoping for a change in america, perhaps with the new elections, perhaps we will get a president that is not corrupted by the love of money, perhaps a president that values life over money and is concerned about how the world views america.  american history can be pretty ugly, as can the history of any nation/country.  




Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/18/2007 2:18:35 PM)

Petrol prices in the UK has gone up to over £1 per litre, some places are selling it at £1.26.  There are 4.5 litres per gallon, and $2 per £1, to drive here in britian is awful.  So expensive.  For me to go to town on the bus cost £3.40, $6.80, a journey guess what? 2 miles, no point to take the car, parking is a no no, £15 to park for over 5 hours.  Or if I only staying for one hour it will cost £2.50, 5 lovely dollars.

Our governments are getting greedy, and using the people everywhere in the world to pay for their luxurious life style.  My ex-wife is a politician, and we used to go to so many gatherings, parties, dinners...etc paid for by the Tax payer.

It is a war about oil, but I wish those idiots will put the same effort into globel warming.  Which I doubt very much.




sadiq2006 -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/19/2007 12:51:17 PM)

yellowsunshine

the new elections in america will never change as long they listen to israel those naive people, did you know who is controlling then pentagon the israels them themselves and using america as a shield for them devil (satan) ambitions. to rule the world and creating problems to each other nations to sell it's weapons that is how the american economy is growing by the theirs weapons and so the people kill each other that is the american politics, and also all the presidents who will rule america in the future they will never give a damn about anything.

let tell you something the best american president in the american was only 1 person and he can never be replaced and that JOHN S. KENNEDY and his great wife, but they were killed by the israel politicins for he was not stading with them, and he wanted peace between the white and the black americans, that is the great leader of america if all the american are like him, america would a paradise to the planet earth and to the world, but you know what i am very disapointed as an american.

try to understand my dear lovely lady yellowsunshine.[&o][X(]   




Calm -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/19/2007 6:41:01 PM)

How can you be american when your reply was full of spelling mistakes, grammer mistakes, even the name of the President.  JFK, and not JSK.

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
give it a rest please.....




YellowSunshine -> RE: If this wars for oil, WHY ARE OIL $$ UP?!?!? (12/21/2007 2:09:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lion of Babylon

quote:

ORIGINAL: sadiq2006

1. as an american like you

2. we americans will never learn from our mistakes

3. god bless my country men. 


[image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image][image]http://www.aliraqi.org/forums/images/smilies/banghd.gif[/image]

LOB above

SADIQ what are you thinking?  Sadiq="A Study in Contrasts"




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