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FlyByBaghdad -> RE: Why Masghoof?? (7/15/2007 12:40:43 PM)
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Dear Azinorum, yes I do agree with some parts of your statement, as a secular type of government would be ideal for a country like Iraq, but for normal Iraqis who are as you say, led by religious figures, these people have an extremely bad memories of secular governments, The Ba3ath was secular, , also assuming that the claim that every Iraqi has a GenSet and a satellite receiver, that he could tune to, watching the secular government in Tunisia forcibly removing Hijab from women and arresting people who choose to grow a small[:D] beard or in Turkey which could be assumed to be the leader of secularism in the Muslim world or….., to be frank, for the normal Muslim people the consequences were disastrous, in one of your comments you stated that the Iraqi people are not ready for democracy and democracy has to be earned and cherished, will ,, I do agree with this but do you think that the Iraqi people were given the chance to earn it????? I want you look on the past 500 years of the history of Iraq and see whether the people of Iraq were given this opportunity to have a say in their lives. To ease up the issue for you there was the Turks who ruled with an iron fist for 400 years, and then the British, and then the Americans. I think, who ever took the driving position in Iraq followed five main objectives; 1) Divide, Destabilize and conquer 2)Demoralisation of the population 3) Keep the population illiterate 4) Keep them poor, scared, and vulnerable 5) keep them engaged and busy in life’s daily requirements – like no petrol, no electricity , no security ……. Considering each one of these topic you will see that these methods have been used extensively over and over in Iraq to come to a single conclusion that the target is mainly the people of Iraq, and in case where the people are educated and wealthy (Iraq in 1979 had an economy equivalent to countries like Portugal and Spain – at that time), or indeed the mentioned objectives are not present in the society the government will achieve those objective by 1) creating a rally point (like the University of Al Mustanseria incident- 1980) and use it as a pre text to invade another country, once this has been done the final ingredients will added by creating the notion of Friends and Foe’s in order to reach these five objectives, and then you have to congratulate your self for achieving a fully functional dictatorship. The true problem which makes the people speak is independence (they don’t want to be slaves), and also the nature of human being, which makes them stand in defence for their existence once their existence is under threat. On the other hand overpowered people who are struggling under harsh conditions which they see, are forced against them by an outsider (which might be domestic, regional, or indeed foreign entities – no names), they see no salvation or a way out except Islam and here we come another point which you have to understand; I separate between Islam and Muslims, Islam is great by all means, Democracy, welfare etc; was created, named and practised by Islam long before the establishment of democracy by the west. But unfortunately there in no much of truly practising Muslims, hence religion is politics and at the heart of that politics, is Islam, and that is one of main points which make people in the west think!!. Islam is the only way or method which gives the long wanted independence and democracy and self-rule and the only method which empower the ordinary overpowered people to say NO. During the 1920 uprising in Iraq, it was the religious leaders who initiated the first sparks for that uprising, and for the hopeless people this fact was seen as an attempt by the religious leaders to rid the people of their tormentors, the victory resulted by this act did open a huge power base for the clergy between ordinary people, whereas for the occupiers and later on dictators, too much power base in the hands of few people i.e. clergy is dangerous hence it has to be dealt with. This in principle could be achieved through propaganda; character assassination, and smear campaign, exile, and sometimes neutralization i.e murder, examples could be seen all over the history of Iraq. Considering a normal person who is living in the suburbs of let’s say Baghdad, he sees lot’s of European flags with a cross on them, he sees the cross given in medals of honour, (especially the cross of Malta) to war heroes (U do agree that behind wars could be a hidden political or religious agendas and as you do agree a cross is a religious symbol) , or as a heading or embedded in numerous political symbols, this will make him think, that in ((true life)) in the west, state and religion do share some aspects with each other , in fact this is a complete paradox with the advocated concept of the secularism in the west. Some presidents speak with god [:D]in their (rectangular) offices , and it is the almighty (lord) who is giving them the much needed guidance to (spread) values around the world. [:D] This also could be another form of the happy marriage between church and politics. With respect to culture, I do mean every thing and I don’t exclude neither art nor science not even the way that we eat Pacha or make Dulma in Iraq, Culture means every thing how we greet each other, how we value family and honour etc. and I sincerely thought that I did not need to explain this. Scientifically speaking, assuming that you mean the lack scientific advances, yes I do agree that we stayed behind due to the obvious explained reasons, after giving the entire world the Scientific means for modern day advances, and I do not exclude any fields, In Fact it gives me a great pride an honour hand writing was first established in the Middle East, seeing the number PI was invented by the Babylonians and without the PI number you have NO circular structures or cylinders or maybe not even a submarine, the first wheel was invented in Iraq, the first divers using Oxygen were Iraqis, the first tank was built in Iraq, Al Gebra, is still an Arabic word no body was able of changing it J, physics is an Arabic word and also chemistry is also an Arabic word, or seeing the picture of Abu Ali Seena the great Muslim doctor embedded in the symbol of the school of pharmacy in one of the western countries, or Hammurabi code of conduct which could be considered the first civil law in the world, or etc. If you want I could go on for everJ, hence no power in the world could deny the fact or the influence of the old Middle East and the New in general on modern day scientific advances. Not to mention that neither Jesus or Moses were German citizens, and certainly Mohammed was not an Italian citizen, so we have to agree that the Middle East gave the world the true means or the foundation for modern day advances, that’s why Iraq is called the cradle of civilizations. Thankfully you have acknowledged the 655,000 figure by the Christian Science Monitor but you neither mentioned the 1.5 million people died during the sanctions nor the DU shells used in Iraq also I would like to add the Cluster ammunition was used as well. Also I think you do agree that the oil for food program and the UN rule was not, as it should have been. And also, I assume that you are suggesting that there are no scientific facts supporting these claims, Right???? A quick search in Google will clarify these aspects in the form of thousands of reputable institutes; in fact it astonishes me, that only you my dear friend who does not acknowledge these issues. These are facts not some kind of a joke!!!!!!![8|] But it is the general attitude everywhere nowadays, which tends to silence any voice bringing the shameful past back to life. Dear Azinorum when was your last visit to Iraq???? I wish next time you pass through the south, especially, go and visit the marsh Arabs, and the Baddwin people, once you do that you will understand what I was talking about in my previous posts. Any ways we got as far as we could from Masghoof to discussing general history, politics and Iraqi social science[:D]. Religion + Politics = Doctrine or a way for life.
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